General forum: Our dear Pope Jan Pawel II is dying :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

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Our dear Pope Jan Pawel II is dying :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( 2005-04-01 p_a_k_o [][][][][][][][][][] 2005-04-02 Abigail Yes, we have noticed. Television, radio, newspapers, websites have been reporting this fact for days. But I guess there’s at least one person who only turns to little golem to get the news. He’ll be one of the many thousands of people who will die this night. But he’s 84 and has had a full life. Unlike the little boy I know who turned 7 last week, and probably won’t make it through the weekend. 2005-04-02 Paul I am an atheist and I find abagail’s response appalling. 2005-04-02 firenze i agree with Paul, Abigail went to far. i am a liberal and more or less atheist, who has disagreed with many of the deeds and decisions of Jan Pawel II, but i would also mourn his death. and if someone mourns the death of a beloved person, there is no room to relativize his death by anyone else’s, be that a seven year-old boy. life and death are uncomparable and unmeasurable. 2005-04-02 shinnosuke I always thought going to Heaven was a good thing... 2005-04-02 volterra we will see cnn reporting from there 2005-04-02 grade1teacher It has just been announced that the Pope has died. I am not a Roman Catholic, but I am a Christian, and I think this man’s passing is a loss to the world and something to be mourned. He was, after all, a great moral leader, someone to be admired, and he will be missed by millions of people around the world. The passing of a 7-year old boy is also very sad. I have friends who recently lost their 2-year old to a brain tumor. The death of a child is something that cannot be described. I doubt that the parents will ever overcome the feeling of anguish and loss. 2005-04-02 vacation Over :( 2005-04-03 Gregorlo Well, he was suffering, and now he is in a better place. Are you sad for him or yourself? 2005-04-03 pitirre well, i think that gregorio is right when he says that many people are sad with themselves. there are people that are sad because they think they lost a religious and moral (whatever that means) and others are sad because they will lose a “familiar” face. being sad for the pope is ridiculous...isnt going to “heaven” something that a believer wants and wishes? now, i dont think that is proper for people here to “attack” the opinions of someone who finds the death of the pope, not trivial, but something natural and “universal” and more if one opens a forum (a games forum?) it is common to get mixed reactions. 2005-04-03 grade1teacher Moral, according to dictionary.com, means, "Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior." I think that sums up the life of Pope John Paul II. We should be happy for him that, as a good and faithful servant, he has gone to his reward. Those left behind mourn for themselves, not for the deceased. 2005-04-03 pitirre “good” and “bad” is vey relative. for instance, the church agree that homosexuality is a mental pathology...but then punish it saying is “evil” (bad). or how about the limited role of the woman in the church. i find that margination “bad” but the church find it reasonable (good). thats just a few examples of the goodness and bad...history tells us of many “good” things but for me are horrible. 2005-04-04 FC Schalke 05 I’m neither catholic nor right wing. So I have not much to do with this. But one thing in his life was really remarkable. Citing the sense of the words of a German priest: After this pope nobody can be any more a good catholic and a anti-semitic. He was able to beg pardon for the crimes of the catholic church in Germany against jews in the darkest days of my people. And this out of an organization, which corrects in my lifetime the actions agaist Giordano Bruno, Galileo Galilei and René Dèscartes (some weeks ago the last). Don’t know if he did the same for the Polish Catholic church – but probably he did. 2005-04-06 adrenochrome Isn’t the next Pope going to be the anti-christ,maybe that is why people are so sad. 2005-04-06 psychoanal What are u talkin about??? Nostradamus said if the pope were black, Apocalypse starts and than Aquarius age. Maybe u mean this. 2005-04-06 mmbeer I have actually read in the nespaper that that could become a possibillity when they elect the new pope...... 2005-04-06 pitirre i remember when john paul 2 was alive that protestants ministers in america said that he was the antichrist and that he was making deals with cocaine dealers in colombia. it is funny because i heard and saw those same protestants ministers talking only “good things” for the pope...now that he is dead. so i guess (in the context of protestants) that the next pope will be a pimp and anorexic...and yes, the antichrist. 2010-06-21 Wakai Yushi THE BEGINNING: HEBREW ISRAELITES http://www.youtube.com/user/WoeUntoBlasphemites http://www.isupk.org/Video/Gen-Mayak-makes-jewish-boy-cry.htm The bible talks about “science” and worldy theories. The Scriptures says Satan will cause wonders and deceive the elect. Its unprofitable/ fake knowledge contrary to events dealing with the hebrews. But the point is true, since Israelites settled many parts of Africa, no one can, accurately, say which Africans ARE NOT Israelites. Revelations 11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R73OVE--_k0&feature=related so i guess (in the context of protestants) that the next pope will be a pimp and anorexic...and yes, the antichrist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53bUGjGDGc4&feature=related 2010-06-25 scottygr8 My encounter with this pope ! As a Catholic , American , French ( of Acadian ancestry),etc. I wanted to share my ten cents worth. I read a NewsWorld article about the man. He made an impression in a photo of John Paul looking directly into a ‘rear view’ mirror. The picture spoke a thousand words. We must all examine ourselves. I found it amazing that he was impacting me many weeks after his death. Other things I recall... Like him or not – Our christian religion grew from over 700 million to over 1.1 billion Catholics worldwide during his 20 + years as a pope. Interesting that his travels took him all over the world. Also, I have a post card of this pope where he pleads with America to be a defender of life. CHRIST our Hope The one who has hope lives differently; the one who hopes has been granted the gift of a new life. 2010-06-25 scottygr8 I guess somehow this man , almost like my father still lives on within me. For you self-proclaimed ‘atheists’ , where do you go after this life of ours has ended ? I am always intersted to know. 2010-06-25 Aganju where we go? where does your breath go when let it out? the atoms and molecules keep existing (for a while), and you are just dead. Like a motherboard with no power. That’s what atheism is, right? Avoiding the helpless invocation of ‘a greater being and eternal life’ because the human mind can’t cope with the finality of dead. Occam’s razor says the easiest explanation is normally correct, and the easiest explanation is that there is nothing super-natural, eternal or otherwise all-encompassing. Just nothing except of our daily life. I understand that makes it difficult to accept the ‘sense of life’. Why should there be a sense? Who said so? Making up the idea that there has to be something just because it can’t be there is nothing, is just suppressing reality. [Duh, now I outed myself... I’m gonna be a martyr for atheism] 2010-06-25 scottygr8 Well, many of my protestant friends say that the devil’s biggest accomplishment is that he has convinced people of this world that he does not exist! how does that song go , " yes there are two paths you can go on ... there 's still time to change the road your on.. " But in the long run , we will all make one choice or the other. And if you choose to make no choice , you still have made one. 2010-06-25 Gregorlo “I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” --Mark Twain 2010-06-25 kingofthebesI What do you believe happens and why do you believe it? Atheism is not a claim as to anything it is the none-acceptance of the claim that most major religions have about what god is. There are SOME atheists who believe in reincarnation. Maybe you should ask yourself why you are catholic, even IF I were willing to grant that a deity or deities exist, why be catholic? There are thousands of religions with angry jealous gods just waiting to torment you in you in the so called afterlife if you fail to acknowledge them or live life in the correct way. The pope a defender of life? what about the pope telling those in AIDS ravaged Africa that condoms spread disease? When they help prevent the spread of disease used properly. The current Pope reportedly called allegations of child abuse allegations petty gossip and was involved in a coverup of priests behaviour before becoming Pope! I notice from the number of games you have lost you are capable of making errors in judgment, why isn’t it possible that your believe in god is also an error in judgment? If you are interested in an atheistic response to a lot of religious claims then check out www.ironchariots.org 2010-06-25 somar96 nonsense 2010-06-25 kingofthebesI Your post doesn’t make sense are you saying catholicism is nonsense? Explain what you mean with a logical argument! 2010-06-25 tasuki “I notice from the number of games you have lost you are capable of making errors in judgment, why isn't it possible that your believe in god is also an error in judgment?” That sounds pretty offensive. And also true :) 2010-06-25 Paul Gautherot Maybe little golem is not the proper place for this king of discussions. If we’re to have a good fight over deities, let’s answer this question: -“If God exists, what is His favorite board game?” (The answer is, of course, go) 2010-06-26 ypercube Yes, off course. And what do you make of someone or something that chooses an inferior game like Go over the only true simple abstract game of Hex? 2010-06-26 kingofthebesI I’m not denigrating the gameplaying ability of the player, which as with all humans, with games of sufficient complexity is not infallible. Just I’m making the point that even if he would claim yahweh to be infallible, he wouldn’t be able make the claim that he doesn’t make errors in judgment. The losing of games seemed like the easiest way to I had to demonstrate human fallibility. Even the worlds best players make errors! I wasn’t going to even respond to this thread which was ironically resurrected after 5 years, which referenced the bible and youtube videos, as if they had any meaningful authority. Once it was responded to particularly in a way, which seemed to imply the common fallacy that atheists have to prove anything. If someone claims a god exists they can start my saying what they mean by a god and why they believe it. If you believe in the afterlife or heaven, then it is your burden to say why you believe that. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What should a man believe if he came home after a year away and found his wife 8 months pregnant that the holy spirit came down and impregnated her or that she was unfaithful? In all seriousness I suggest that religious and none-religious read the old and new testament or whichever religious text is most prevalent where you live, if you have the patience. Those believe it is divinely inspired should know it and not just the parts you were taught in sunday school. Those who don’t believe can help advance discussions with theists to know what they mostly believe and most would claim as the source of their morality. 2010-06-26 kingofthebesI @paul gautherot see my response as to why I replied. Discussing religion isn’t bad, but dragging up an old thread to spout the bible and link to youtube seemed uncalled for. Well there is susposedly Caissa the god of chess. 2010-06-26 Wakai Yushi http://www.isupk.org/Video/Gen-Mayak-makes-jewish-boy-cry.htm http://www.isupk.org/Video/ISUPK-in-Puerto-Rico.htm http://www.isupk.org/Video/Gen-Yahanna-hits-Chicago.htm Why is there a God rather than no God at all? Kind of like the question, Why is there something rather than nothing? Leaving aside the “why,” what we do know is that there is something. We have absolutely no evidence for God. toddhisattva He always was, and is. He is the essence of the infinite. The reason man can even contemplate infinite is because God is there already. Your answer, although thoughtful, does not exactly answer the question as to the origin of matter. If I were to accept the answer to your question, the next question would be: Nothing cannot exist without something What did he create space-time out of? What material did he use to create space-time? Where did that material come from? Did it pre-exist with God? If it pre-existed with God was it created at the same time as God? If if was created earlier, how did the space-time precursor come to exist. Who created it if it existed prior to God? You could ask those same questions without the question of God: What created space-time? What material was used in the creation of space-time? Where did that material come from? Did it pre-exist the known elements and universe? If it pre-existed the universe, was it created at the same time as the universe? If if was created earlier, how did the space-time precursor come to exist. (Who created it if it existed prior to God?)--> If it existed prior to the universe (or multiverse as some now talk about — but I reject) as precursor to the universe, what were its precursors, and how many “generations” of “stuff” were there prior to the universe? To what can we attribute the quality or state of existence?I understand that matter can be viewed like water: sometimes it is clouds and sometimes it is ocean. Sometimes matter is and sometimes it isn’t. If matter can neither be created or destroyed, then there is neither more nor less than the original quantity. You ask, in essence, “Why is there something rather than nothing?” Or in a theistic context, “Why is there God rather than no God?” I cannot offer an answer to the question; it is beyond me. Although I do like the response I once heard: Nothing cannot exist without something (since not-being only makes sense in relation to being and vice versa), and thus both must exist. Perhaps language itself allows us to go no farther. I don’t know. Which returns again to the fundamental question in either a theistic or materialistic framework: “How did God come to have the power to create our universe?” or "How did the universe come to be so that the physical laws within it permitted a “quantum fluxuation” I spoke of?" Introduction to Planning...We will treat any behavior as a motion. Thus, we will also treat any behavior generation as a motion control process. Actually, path planning is just a component of the more general paradigm in which the control of motion starts...God has all that data; He could know all there is to know about the next earthquake, even if the future is not yet formed. That quake will occur when the pressure exceeds the friction, and its intensity will be based on the degree of stress and distance of movement at that time. Is it so different with auto accidents? Could He not know when the woman at the stop sign would be inattentive, and would pull out into the intersection? Would He not also know that I would be entering the intersection from the cross street at that time? Could he not calculate the velocities and positions of both vehicles with pinpoint accuracy, define the points of impact, and predict the damage to the vehicles and the people? To say that God knows what will happen to me tomorrow, and how I will react to it, and how that reaction will affect others, is a small matter that does not even require that He be able to see the future, no more so than I need to be able to see the future to know that if I sit across the chess table from my friend David, he will beat me. As to the fulfillment of His plan in the earth, if He has so complete an understanding of all things, He need do very little to cause the chain of events He intends. In fact, it has been observed that given His complete knowledge of all that is or might be He could have started the universe at the beginning of all time in such a way that He need never intervene to bring it to where He wanted it to end--much as a pool shark can sink all the balls on the table with a single shot, knowing that if he hits that first ball just right, everything will move to everything else to clear the table. “Also, if God is omniscient, it must follow that free will cannot exist, how do you view this problem?” It always bothers me that, according to the laws as we understand them today, it takes a computing machine an infinite number of logical operations to figure out what goes on in no matter how tiny a region of space and no matter how tiny a region of time. How can all that be going on in that tiny space? Why should it take an infinite amount of logic to figure out what one tiny piece of space-time is going to do? http://www.youtube.com/user/mashahba#p/u/95/Y0R6g60UH_A http://www.youtube.com/user/mashahba#p/u/81/EvngFzqwvuc http://www.youtube.com/user/144HEBREW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRHM1MDqbY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53bUGjGDGc4&feature=related http://www.isupk.org/Video/Gen-Yahanna-on-heaven-and-hell-is-on-earth-pt2.htm http://www.youtube.com/user/AHMAWANBA#p/u/136/xj-0dlGRt5o 2010-06-26 Wakai Yushi For it is here that we answer the age-old question: "Can God make a rock so big that He can not pick it up ?" And the answer is yes; that rock is the divinely created human will. 2010-06-26 Wakai Yushi When a woman is pregnant, is she making the baby grow? No, the baby grows by itself. And does the baby make itself grow? No, it grows spontaneously. Life happens, and we cannot take the credit for it. To water a plant and exposing it to sunlight, are true principles: we’ve observed that it grows and flowers in this way. Yet we are not doing the growing or the flowering, that would be taking the credit, claiming responsibility for the process of life which is not our doing at all. We are not making these flowers grow, not even if we are growing them! Life is not my responsibility. I cannot take the credit for being here, nor can I take the credit for my intelligence or my consciousness. Can anyone? 2010-06-26 Paul Gautherot @ypercube Look at a King James version of the bible. Count how many times the word “go” is written in it. Now count how many times the word “hex” is written in it. See? Go is the divine game, only a “d” away from God. (while if you add a “d” to hex, you get hexd, which is as far away from God as you can be.) 2010-06-26 ypercube Then count how many times “weichi” is written in that book :) 2010-06-26 Aganju lol. I’m getting the impression that we got some trolls around here. Or maybe one only, with multiple accounts. 2010-06-26 quartastella “When a woman is pregnant, is she making the baby grow? No, the baby grows by itself. And does the baby make itself grow? No, it grows spontaneously.” I knew it! Women always say that when they are pregnant they need to eat for two, but it’s just a giant scam because the baby grows “spontaneously”! 2010-06-26 Wakai Yushi Finally I ask myself this question... If it is said that God’s love is infinite then why a hell?? to me there is a limit even for God. There are many loopholes in all faiths and the answer I’ve always gotten when researched is the need for faith. No real answer just faith. How can someone have faith with nothing to base it on but words? To me it is foolosh. I have faith in the brakes on my car that they will stop the car when needed. It was only after several uses and I could physically see that it became a faith. 2010-06-27 Wakai Yushi Can God make a rock so big that He can not pick it up ?" And the answer is yes; that rock is the divinely created human will. Actually, statistics tend to be the reverse. Religion is very common in social sciences, psychology etc. Physics, chemistry etc. have much lower rates of religion (and it has been this way for the past century at least). And among those scientists that have a religion, it tends to be a social function, not a core belief. 2010-06-27 Wakai Yushi I think the important message here is not whether one should believe or disbelieve, but to make that decision for yourself. Essentially, I know plenty of intellecutals who lack perspective and dont believe in religion because that is what people who “think” do. Unfortunately, these people are just as bad as the die-hard evangalist’s. Personally, I’m not interested in trying to save or covert anyone; however, if I can make someone think and use his/her brain, I will be satisfied. CHECK-MATE!! 2010-06-27 scottygr8 Am always amazed at the ones who continually respond to these threads. It must be a little uncertainty. Probably another doubting Thomas I suppose. If Jesus appeared to you & had you touch the wounds in his hands or feet you 'd still question. Happy are we who have not seen but yet believe. Love conquers all ( remember this). If you live in love you live in the light. Without this, you shall live in darkness. { i am not spouting on abt. the bible. i am making remarks about what i individually have learned }. Personally, I believe in the Father, the Son , & the Holy Spirit. The spirit dwells in all of us. The question here is 'which spirit dwells in you?' 2010-06-27 quartastella I have no problem with people believing in God, Buddha, Superman, or the Cookie Monster. It’s their belief, their life, and they are entitled to believe whatever they want. What I really have a problem with is people who tell you that you are stupid because you don’t believe in the existence of the fictional character they believe in. Why can’t we be left alone enjoying our stupidity? 2010-06-27 Paul Gautherot I’m pretty sure the Cookie Monster doesn’t play go, he’s not smart enough. He’s probably an hex player. And he scared the hell out of me, I couldn’t stand watching sesame street because of him. I’m enjoying my stupidity very much :) 2010-06-27 Gregorlo The supreme arrogance of religious thinking: that a carbon-based bag of mostly water on a spec of iron-silicate dust around a boring dwarf star ... would look up at the sky and declare, 'It was all made so that I could exist!' 2010-06-28 Wakai Yushi "A great error of the Church has always been its assumption of authority over the souls of men in all matters of faith and dogma; and the natural fruit of dogmatic authority has always been, and always will be, insincerity, hypocrisy, cant, and all their evil brood. Until that yoke is completely broken everywhere in Christendom, its results are bound to appear.â€* --Professor Levi L. Paine There can not, in the nature of the case, be any word in Scripture that means “endless time.” “Time” is always connected with its cognate thought of “temporal” and “temporary.” “Time” is always a relative term; “eternity,” in any accurate sense, is always absolute. The difficulty is increased by popular speech. “Eternity” is used for time that does not end, but this is incorrect. If we are to have clearness of thought in this discussion and in the exposition of the Holy Scriptures, it is necessary to distinguish the absolute from the relative. In many instances the translators of the Bible have failed to do this, and most Bible teachers and theologians have also failed here. Even those who know and remark the difference, when it comes to the application of the same, largely neglect it. This is caused both by the bondage of usage and the difficulty to think clearly beyond the fallen temporal condition. In fact, if we desire to speak of eternity, so temporal is our condition that we may have to use expressions of time. For instance, we might say that there never will be “a time in eternity” when the creature will not be in full fellowship with God. But the term "time in eternity'' is incorrect, for there is no time in eternity, and yet if such a phrase was used, most would understand what would be meant. The failure properly to distinguish thoughts which are opposites has done immense damage to our right understanding of God and His Word. The Bible is preeminently a book for time. When eternity, in its absolute sense, is reached we will not need the Bible, our blessed Chart which guided our bark through the great oceans of time. Time has a beginning and an end. Eternity is without bounds. Time has fallen out of eternity after the same manner as man; and this world is in a different state from that in which it was first created. The world has lost much of its spiritual condition. It has become gross, dense, material. It was originally of spiritual substance. Time is the state that is proper for such a fallen, divided and mixed condition. Time, as we have said, has as part of its meaning, “temporary.” There is no such conception in the Bible (there may be in some of our translations) as “everlasting,” or “eternal,” in the sense of time. The very nature of the state called “time” is temporary. Whatever has a beginning must also have an end. The word “torment†needs study. In the New Testament the same word is used of one “sick of the palsy, grievously tormented (Matt. 8:6). It is used of the disciples' ship in Galilee, and is translated “tossed with waves†(Matt. 14:24). It is translated by the word “toiling†in Mark 6:48. It is translated by the word “vexed'†in speaking of Lot (2Pet. 2:8). It is translated by a word that means “birth-pains†(Rev. 12:2). In the other Scriptures it is translated by the word “torment†or “tormented.†The original idea of the verb is “to put to the test by rubbing on a touchstone.†Then it means “to question by applying some test or torture to discover whether true or not.†The original idea was to test some metal that looked like gold to find whether it was real or not. It also signifies “to torture in order to extort a confession.†The meaning and usage of this word harmonizes with the idea of divine purification and the torment which is the test to find whether there has been any change or not in the sufferer. Through the hidden, loving purpose of God, every pang of torment will be a birth pang; and the grace of God will not be absent--and as He says, “Behold, I am making all things new†(literal). He will leave no spot in the whole universe unrenewed. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue . . . confess†(Phil. 2:10,11, literal). The ages of the ages come to an end. “Then cometh the end†(1Cor. 15:24-28). Time ceases and eternity begins. There will be no '‘day and night’' in eternity. The suffering lasts only while there is “day and night†(Rev. 20:10). There is another phrase that may throw further light upon this great theme and that is “the second death,†“in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.†Speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ, one objects and says, “But He was tempted and how could a person who was truly righteous and holy be tempted?”' It is true that He was tempted, but He never yielded to temptation. We need to have it written in our hearts, and realized in our experience, that temptation is not sin. The harboring and yielding to it are sins. Often the enemy says when we are tempted, “Now you have thought about a certain sin, you may as well do it.” Say, “Get thee behind me, Satan, I will not yield one inch.” It may not be possible at times to prevent thoughts of sin from being hurled into our mind, but we can refuse them, and we will become a stronger man or a stronger woman immediately. Temptation is not sin. We know that God is good and we know that everything that God does is good; but the fact is, in this universe created by God, we find evil. We read in the Word of God that “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.” How then could evil ever enter if God is good and if God made everything? It does not fully answer the question by saying, “An enemy hath done this,” for then the natural question arises, "Who made the enemy?" 2010-06-28 Gregorlo 2010-06-28 Wakai Yushi You stand before the Spanish Inquisition, tattered and worn. You have been accused of renouncing your Christian faith, and for that crime, you will be forced to endure the painful torture of the Heretics Fork. You are familiar with this torture, as you have seen others before you paraded through your village adorning the horrific device. Only now, it is your turn. You can only abide in horror as the instrument, two prongs at either end, is securely fastened around your neck by a collar, ensuring it will remain in place. One end of the fork is jammed deeply into your sternum bone, causing excruciating pain, while the sharp tines opposite are pressed into the tender, fleshy underside of your chin. The pain is unimaginable, and you feel yourself growing faint as warm blood trickles down your neck onto your chest and shoulders. Your Inquisitor demand you repeat “abuiro†– “I recantâ€, however the horrendous pain of the Heretics Fork does not allow free movement of your neck or jaw, making your ability to speak nearly impossible, and your voice is scarcely audible. Again and again it is demanded of you to recant and repent from your crime against Christianity, but alas, you are unable. The die has been cast, and your fate is now sealed. You are labeled an impenitent heretic. Adorned in a fancy costume and paraded through town, you are led to the stake where you will be burned alive or hanged. ref: http://www.inquisitionchamber.com/quaestio/fork.htm 2010-06-28 Wakai Yushi Based in Vatican City, the Holy Office of the Inquisition is still one of the most powerful branches of the Church hierarchy. In 1965, Pope Paul VI renamed the Inquisition as the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, but it was still basically the Inquisition. ref: http://www.youtube.com/user/WoeUntoBlasphemites Turkey or chicken?......WOW! 2010-06-28 Gregorlo God killed Himself to save us from Himself. weird... I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. 2010-06-28 erratic In fact that is exactly the first commandment of all religions: “Though shalt not think!”. (Rephrase adequately) “Do not kill” is only priority number five in their code as it has been showed too many times in history. There is no religion the can stand critical thinking for even one hour. It protects healthy people for wasting their lives thinking. Praying is so much nicer... Two silly questions religious people won’t probably want to answer: 1. Don’t you feel offended when your prophet calls himself “The Shepard”? What does that turn you into? Lambs? 2. What exactly do you expect when praying? Do you really believe in an onmiscent creator of the universe worring about how guilty you feel for having “you know, dirty thoughts”? 2010-06-29 elroy I was rather perplexed by this thread resurfacing; I couldn’t see how it related to games. Now, after reading through it I realize that this IS kind of a game and it looks rather fun so I will take a turn. I am going to go with the derivative Eric Fromm opening with my own blend of boiled down, trash culture mixed in. Here it is Life, the universe and everything is a mystery. Nobody gets out alive and bad stuff happens all the time. You know, fires, floods and killer bees. Its rather frightening because we don’t know what is going on. We can’t. Being frightened is uncomfortable so we want an explanation. When we go looking for answers there are folks who are happy to give them to us as long as we play nice, believe what they believe and maybe cough up ten percent of our income so they can fund that building project, and get a nice mural painted on the ceiling (It is a very nice ceiling and a local artist did it.) Now we are not frightened anymore, we have answers. Bling! we have religion, hierarchy, structure, someone to lead us, someone we can follow. It is fun and all the cool kids are doing it. That is religion in a nutshell. Fear of the unknown leading us to follow others who may or may not have an axe to grind but if they do, you get to be the axe. Believing in religion is different than believing in god or a creator or some higher being or, if you like, the holy banana tree. Fromm’s book “Escape From Freedom” explores these themes with actual intelligence. He is reported to have written the book as a result of trying to comprehend how the Nazis rose to power. His work might trump YouTube references but I am not sure. More importantly, my self-created, anthropomorphic personification of an omnipotent entity loves Twixt. Who’s turn is it? 2010-06-29 Wakai Yushi My Move..... 777. Bc4!? The above image depicts the “Witch's Kiss.” It was believe that part of the rite of becoming a witch in Satan’s service involved kissing Satan’s rear. It should be remembered that insofar as there existed anyone who practiced the healing and divination techniques of older pagan traditions, they wouldn’t have had anything to do with Satan. After all, Satan is a creation of Christianity and monotheistic traditions. Any “witches” who existed were pantheists or polytheists and wouldn’t have believed in a Satan. Ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9zBX4gt0eo&feature=channel 2010-06-29 Gregorlo A scatter plot or scattergraph is a type of mathematical diagram using Cartesian coordinates to display values for two variables for a set of data. The data is displayed as a collection of points, each having the value of one variable determining the position on the horizontal axis and the value of the other variable determining the position on the vertical axis. This kind of plot is also called a scatter chart, scatter diagram and scatter graph. Ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BjgPQvIEg 2010-06-29 Wakai Yushi You Move..... 701.p16 ... 721.q15 ... 741.b10 ... 761.i12 ... 781.l5 ... 7101.m9 ... 7121.l16 ... Ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWS0ePXeq24 Cognitive scientists also repudiate this law in their work. The creature is henceforth greater than the creator, for man has surpassed inanimate nature, whose creation he is. Their dream is to build a computer that will shame us, that will so surpass us intellectually as we do the apes. The Law of Priority in Creation, however, repudiates their programme. For the computers they build, the programs they write all testify of a creative genius in man which surpasses the objects it creates. For any computer program that is supposed to rival the human intellect, I merely point to the human author who conceived the program. According to the Law of Priority in Creation the cognitive scientist’s programme is self-refuting. To the western esotericists, the Tree of Life functioned much like the Kundalini diagrams of the Hindu mystics. Some medieval Kabbalists used the concepts in the Sepher Yetsirah to create an artificial form of life, as in the Golem legends of Prague and Warsaw. This light, the essence of God, was trapped in human bodies as separate sparks of light, our souls. The goal of their knowledge was the path of return, or the ability of the individual sparks to return to the original Light through the process of redemption. As God is supposed to have made man in his image and likeness, then man was thought to contain, in microcosm, the entire Tree of Life. By mapping the internal power centers, and then projecting outward and aligning them with the forces of nature, the magician sought to re-enact the process of creation. And so become, like God, a co-creator of the universe. 2010-06-29 Wakai Yushi Who’s turn is it? 2010-06-29 Gregorlo You might mean: "Whose turn is it?" 2010-06-29 Aganju not 'Whom’s turn'? 2010-06-29 erratic “For any computer program that is supposed to rival the human intellect, I merely point to the human author who conceived the program.” That’s a big misconception. It could be true for rule based expert systems. That’s the reason nobody, except maybe Doug Lenat, believes in rule based knowledge. Current AI is about programs experimenting and discovering things they have not been told. Programs discover things their authors ignore every minute. For each extra ply of search depth in games programs “understand” a new set of “superior strategical ideas” that homocentric minds though were reserved to homo sapiens till the end of time. Why is it so hard to accept the obvious? There is nothing supranatural about thinking. Machines can think. It should be obvious since biological machines can think. It just requires to grow up and accept the consequences. It doesn’t sell as well as the “immortal soul”, but you don’t look as stupid when you explain your beliefs. Since its only a question of growing up, there is no proselytism. 2010-06-30 Dustin 1. Do evangelists think they will convince anyone to join their religions by posting in an internet forum, approaching people on the street, pamphleteering, etc? I can see the reasoning behind heavy-duty charity work combined with proselytizing but anything else just seems inflammatory and off-putting. 2. You do not choose whether or not to believe in god(s). You have faith or you don’t; you can’t be convinced to believe by any sort of argument. Why do people judge others so harshly based on something they can’t control? 2010-06-30 ypercube That is what judgement is about, isn’t it? 2010-06-30 Wakai Yushi “The word 'eternal', if what I have said be true, is a key word of the New Testament. To draw our minds from the temporal, to fix them on the eternal, is the very aim of the Divine economy. How much ought we then to dread any confusion between thoughts which our Lord has taken such pains to keep distinct? How dangerous to introduce the notion of duration into a word from which He has deliberately excluded it! And yet this is what we are precisely in the habit of doing: and it is this which causes such infinite perplexity in our minds. 'Try to conceive this', the teachers say, 'a thousand years, multiply these by a thousand, by twenty thousand, by a hundred thousand, by a million. Still you are as far from eternity as ever'. Certainly I am, quite as far. Why then did you give me the sum to work out? What could be the use of it except to bewilder me, except to make me disbelieve in eternity altogether? Do you not see that this course must be utterly wrong and mischievous? If eternity is the great reality of al, and not a portentous fiction, how dare you impress such a notion of fictitiousness on my mind as your process of illustration conveys? But is it not the only process? Quite the only one if you will bring time into the question--if you will have years and centuries to prevent you from taking in the sublime truth.”* *Quoted in The Spirits in Prison, by E. H. Plumptree, D. D., page 361 (Thomas Whittaker, New York). So have you heard the latest reason to explain the BP Gulf oil leak? Well, much like anything catastrophic that happens, God is involved. Yeah, you know the same God who released his wrath in the form of an earthquake on those Voodoo worshiping Haitians earlier this year? Uh-huh, the same God who used Hurricane Katrina to punish ““the gaysâ€â€ of New Orleans in 2005? Yep, I’’m talking about that loving God 1. It is prejudice that blinds the eye, stops the ear, misunderstands and misinterprets everything that comes its way. Its state of mind is not founded on facts but on some feeling of dislike or something of self-interest. 2. The spirit of prejudice stands in the way of all new views of truth. Prejudice has been defined as “a judgment or opinion formed without due examination of the facts or reasons that are essential to a just and impartial determination.†3. The punishment of the wicked is for the ages of the ages. Death itself ends before our Lord hands over His completed work (1Cor. 15:26). Our Lord’s redemptive work was potentially finished when He died on the cross, but the application of it to His creation will not be completed till the great end of the Ages. It might be well to notice that altho the Son of Man becomes subject to the Father, the Scripture does not say that the Father becomes “all in all,” but “God (becomes) may be all in all,” that is, the whole Godhead becomes “all in all.” 4. Let us consider the angels, all created equal. What would develop them morally and spiritually? Exercising the power of choice was one of the methods. What would they have to choose? Choose God and realize to some extent what it would be if they refused God and chose themselves. As they continued in this path their lessons would become more complex. All would progress, some more than others (errors of judgment are not sins), and those who made the greatest progress became the greatest angels, and those who made the least progress were the smaller angels. God is no respecter of persons, and He made them all equal at first. Those that appropriated more of God became stronger and stronger. In this way some of the angelic beings became greater than others and had positions nearer to God. They continued by communion and the power of choice, just as the Lord Jesus Christ was developed when He came down here--and how wonderful He became! One of the greatest was a good angel, he was not called “Satan” then, for Satan means “adversary.” When Satan advanced he began feeling how great he was, he chose himself before God; and all those he influenced fell with him. God foresaw that--the disruption of His plan and the entrance of evil; and His marvelous power and wisdom were sufficient, and so He had the redemption prepared in the Lord Jesus Christ. We have seen something of Sin and its Cause and we know something of its Consequences, and the Cure is the Lord Jesus Christ. 777. Evil in its nature was not eternal in the past, therefore it can not possibly be eternal in the future. Well according to a group who calls themselves Generals International, the Gulf oil spill is God’’s punishment because of Barack Obama’’s poor treatment of Israel. Yeah I know, right? Israel? Are Barack and Farrakhan buddies or sumthin? Well anyway, according to these loons, Cindy and Mike Jacobs of Generals International in their webcast, God is pretty pissed off because Obama has disrespected the state of Israel: I guess this is all plausible especially since Obama is a Kenyan born Muslim and all, right? I mean maybe this explains why Obama decided to side with Israel against the UN in regards to an international investigation of the recent flotilla incident. Maybe Obama was trying to get back in the good graces of God by doing that. But then God said, ““I’’ll show these fools,â€â€ and then in the blink of an eye, the Deep Water Horizon Exploded. Yep, forget all the talk of BP’’s incompetence, greed and deregulation. Yeah, forget that crap because the truth is the Lord works in mysterious ways. And because he is who he is, he chooses special people who just happen to be religious fundamentalists to hit ‘‘em with a text message to say, ““you betta let these fools know, son!â€â€ Yeah, I’’m sure Helen Thomas is somewhere saying ten Hail Marys as she tries to prevent Iowa from being hit by a tsunami. Ironically, this very group sponsored and participated recently in a May Day 2010 prayer rally in-spite of recent financial troubles. Of course God stepped in and through his magic they were able to secure a $15,000 matching grant. But as you know, God’’s work isn’’t cheap, nor does he have the cash. I guess this would explain why on the webcast they were seeking donations to fight off the attacks from a demonic vortex they’’re currently battling, that is trying to shut them down. Ref: Why do people judge others so harshly based on something they can’t control? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Oq8AcZW_g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oljrngl5Iwc 2010-06-30 Wakai Yushi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY-lPdat2zE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOSJVfbgxdo The BP oil spill: an affront to spiritual ecology [Black-Gold] Where, the dome of the rock now stands on Mt. Moriah was once where the 2nd temple once stood before the romans destroyed it in 70 ? A.D. Revelation chapter 11 tells of a 3rd temple being built in jerusalem where the dome of the rock currently stands in the way of that. Y’shua, will not return to jerusalem, till the 3rd temple is built over where the dome of the rock currrently stands, armaggedon will begin once the controversy starts over the temple being built over the dome of the rock. Romans 1:20 says, For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – His eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. If we treat the earth in a spiritually ecological fashion, our unquenchable thirst for an unstainable life will end. Remember that we have not inherited the earth from our ancestors, but, rather, have borrowed it from our children. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imIMQQTu13w&feature=related 2010-06-30 Wakai Yushi Can God make a rock so big that He can not pick it up ?" "Whose turn is it?" 2010-06-30 Gregorlo @Dustin: I think believing in god(s) and believing what some other guy tells you about god (i.e. religion, or church) are completely different things. Having or not having faith it’s perhaps out of your control (i doubt it), but the church who wants to control you is soooo dependent on your geography, that is really really doubtful! 2010-06-30 Wakai Yushi Fossils from deep saltwater ‘caves’ show how human settlement has always upset the natural order, reports Roger Highfield A pioneering study of life recorded in giant sinkholes that extend far below sea level has shown scientists the catastrophic impact that ancient communities had on their environments. By swimming down into “blue holes” - vertical caves in the landscape – scientists can travel back in time, exploring a treasure trove of fossils and gaining a new understanding of the prehistoric ecosystem. The holes are so named because of the dramatic contrast between the dark blue saltwater of their depths and the lighter blue of the freshwater shallows around them. The holes, such as the Great Blue Hole at Lighthouse Reef Atoll, Belize, can sink to depths of more than 650ft and are typically found in the Caribbean on the Bahama Banks, as well as on and around the Yucatán Peninsula. Expert divers and scientists recently carried out the first sophisticated excavation on a hole in the Bahamas, which provided a rare glimpse of life before humans arrived. The cave on Great Abaco Island, known as Sawmill Sink, contains a host of well-preserved fossils, many from species that are now extinct. These include the first entire skeletons found in the West Indies of a 2,500-year-old tortoise and an unusual crocodile that roamed the land, along with bones from a lizard, snakes, bats and 25 species of birds, not to mention abundant plant fossils. Diver Brian Kakuk, a consultant for the Bahamas National Museum, discovered the first Sawmill Sink fossil – the giant tortoise shell, which was in excellent condition. But long before tourists arrived in the Bahamas, ancient humans had taken up residence on this archipelago off the coast of Florida. The subsequent disappearance of species from the fossil record offers stark evidence that the arrival of humans permanently changed – and eliminated – life on what had been isolated islands. “The climate and the environmental conditions back then weren't much different from those of today,” explains David Steadman, who works at the Florida Museum of Natural History. “The big difference is us. When people got to the island, there was probably nothing easier to hunt than tortoises, so they cooked and ate them. And they got rid of the crocodiles, probably because it's tough to have kids playing at the edge of a village where there are terrestrial crocodiles running around.” Radiocarbon analysis dates the human bones – the most recent discovery is a tibia – found at Sawmill Sink at between 1,000 and 4,200 years old. The fossils are the best?preserved of any found in the Bahamas, because the deep saltwater layer of the sinkhole contains no oxygen, which would normally feed the bacteria and fungi that cause bones to decay. “The fossils from Sawmill Sink open unparalleled opportunities for much more sophisticated work than ever in reconstructing the ancient plant and animal communities,” Steadman says. “They help us to understand not only how individual species evolve on islands but also how these communities changed with the arrival of people, because we know that changes in the ecosystem are much more dramatic on islands than on continents.” The fossil site is especially valuable because of the presence of fossilised plants as well as animals: leaves, twigs, flowers, fruits, seeds, pollen and spores. For example, the bracken ferns suggest that the island once boasted a regenerative, fire-swept landscape of open grasslands. “For the first time in the West Indies, we have plant fossils right in with the vertebrates, so we can reconstruct the habitats in a much more sophisticated way,” says Steadman. Other blue holes could yield further palaeontological and archaeological riches. Admittedly, exploring them is hazardous: depth, tight spaces, vision-clouding particles and toxic layers of hydrogen sulphide can make the sinkholes dark and dangerous places to dive. But that won’t put off the scientists for long. 2010-06-30 kingofthebesI Why are churches so often and temples damaged by earthquake and weather? A recent headline “act of God destroys statue of Jesus!” “...I guess this is all plausible especially since Obama is a Kenyan born Muslim and all, right?...” Who the hell said Obama was muslim? This person has more straw men than a scarecrow convention. 2010-06-30 Gregorlo 2010-06-30 elroy I concede the game to Gregorlo. “Thou Shalt Be Cool” is so much more succinct and appropriate than my post that I must admit he beat me. Note must be made to somar96. I thought he (or she) had won the game early with his post of one word “nonsense” but “Thou Shalt Be Cool” is the best. I figure I started the game so I can declare the winner. Let’s all thank Wakai Yushi for his providing what appear to be randomly generated idea strings that were too long and incoherent for anyone to bother reading. Those important youtube footnotes to his scholarly research that nobody linked to were great also. That all made for a great playing board. He must have worked really hard on all of that for us. Scottygr8 helped with some excellent additions to the playing board too. What’s better than a quote from the prophets of Lead Zeppelin (He did do that, check it out above, he actually made a Stairway to Heaven Reference. That is such a wonderful trash-culture mutation reference that I nearly wet my pants laughing.) Let’s all thank everyone who played and let the thread die now. I suppose in three days, give or take, it will be resurrected (again). 2010-06-30 elroy I forgot to mention again that my self-created, anthropomorphic personification of an omnipotent entity loves Twixt above all other games. I don’t have any solid evidence or proof but I deeply believe it so it must be true. 2010-06-30 scottygr8 Ah , guess it ‘s my turn. ( Anyone hear of ’ its your turn . com ' ) I STAND BESIDE God 's ROCK – whatever the size – I remain his devoted soldier. No Oil spill ( which tears my heart ) , no Katrina (90 mi east) or Rita (100 mi. west ), no frikkin Gustav ( ripped my roof / I hate shitty storm names! ) , no Hurricane Andrew , no Hurricane Betsy , etc – none of these can keep me from my mission. I am a friend of Luis – a True Warrior – Last of the Mohicans. ( Luis gets around daily in a wheel chair & loves Metallica btw ). ‘ See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world and not according to Christ.’ Collossians 2:8 also 2 Thes 2:15 [ this is where the rubber meets the road ... as the saying goes ] ‘If your enemy is hungry, feed him;... by doing this you will heap coals of fire upon his head. ’ Romans 12:20 { wow , I need another cup of coffee .... cup runneth dry }. 2010-06-30 scottygr8 Stern as death is love, relentless as the nether world is devotion. Song 8:6 ( Love can supply for a life that is cut short. God does not look at time, for he is eternal. He looks only at love ). St. Theresa 2010-06-30 Wakai Yushi I concede the game to scottygr8. “I STAND BESIDE God 's ROCK - whatever the size - I remain his devoted soldier. No Oil spill ( which tears my heart ), etc . . . ” is so much more succinct and appropriate than my post that I must admit he beat me. “The nicest thing about having Gregorio around is that he makes the raincoat flashers look suave. I need to get the heck off his site, but it keeps beckoning me back today. Darn voodoo I tell you!”“I found our dear Pope web site on a public restroom wall.” “Important news from the Vatican, the Pope has ordered ten new commandments.” ––always thought going to Heaven was a good thing . . . -That is such a wonderful trash-culture mutation reference that I nearly wet my pants laughing.) There are four truths in life: 1. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. . . . 2. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian faith . . . 3. Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store. 4. Jesus is A Puerto Rican. “Bad Utube Example is like a bug bite, you don’’t want to itch it but you do” Bobby Fisher and the Pope Jan Pawed II Bobby Fisher and the Pope die on the same day, but a mixup in the afterlife paperwork sends them to the wrong places: the Pope Jan Pawed II goes to hell and Bobby goes to heaven. After a couple of days they fix this problem and the Pope gets on the escalator to go to heaven and Fisher gets on the other to go to hell. The two pass each other on the way and Bobby asks, “How bad was it down there?” The Pope says, “Not that bad, kind of hot and noisy, but I am glad to be going up to heaven now. There's one thing up there I have been looking forward to.” Bill asks, “What is that?” The Pope replies, “I want to meet the Japanese Virgin Teresa.” Bobby, shakes his head sheepishly and whispers to the Pope, “Too late.” Check-Mate.. I think I am burning in frameeeeeeeeeeee@.COM Can God make a rock so big that He cannot pick it up?" A man was walking in the mountains just enjoying the scenery when he stepped too close to the edge of the mountain and started to fall. In desperation he reached out and grabbed a limb of a gnarly old tree hanging onto the side of the cliff. Full of fear he assessed his situation. He was about 100 feet down a shear cliff and about 900 feet from the floor of the canyon below. If he should slip again he’d plummet to his death. Full of fear, he cries out, “Help me!” But there was no answer. Again and again he cried out but to no avail. Finally he yelled, “Is anybody up there? ” A deep voice replied, “Yes, I'm up here.” “Who is it?” “It's the Lord.” “Can you help me?” “Yes, I can help. Have faith in me.” “Help me!” “Let go.” Looking around the man became full of panic. "What? 2010-06-30 quartastella “It's not a lie if you believe it.” George Costanza 2010-07-02 Wakai Yushi “The Puerto Rican Day” is the 176th and penultimate episode of the NBC sitcom Seinfeld. It aired on May 7, 1998, and was the 20th episode of the 9th and final season. It was the show’s second-highest-rated episode of all time, with 38.8 million viewers, only behind the series finale. The episode aired one week before the two-part clip show and the two-part series finale aired. Because of controversy surrounding a scene in which Cosmo Kramer accidentally burns and then stomps on the Puerto Rican flag, NBC refused to show it again and it was not initially part of the syndicated package. In the summer of 2002, the episode started to appear with the flag-burning sequence intact. On certain channels, such as TBS, the episode continues not to air. This episode of Seinfeld has more writer credits (ten) than any other episode. As co-creator Larry David was returning to write the finale, this was the final episode for the active “after Larry David” writing staff and thus was a group effort. Faced with criticism from the leader of a Puerto Rican organization who found the '‘Seinfeld’' episode on Thursday insulting, NBC apologized yesterday, saying it had not intended to offend anyone. The second-to-last '‘Seinfeld’' featured Jerry, Elaine, George and Kramer driving back from a Mets game and getting stuck in a traffic jam created by the Puerto Rican Day parade. At one point, Kramer tossed a sparkler and accidentally lighted a Puerto Rican flag on fire. He tried putting out the burning flag by stomping on it. Angry paradegoers then began chasing Kramer. When they lost him, the mob began shaking Jerry’s empty car and threw it down a stairwell. Kramer remarked that ''it’s like this every day in Puerto Rico.'' The scene was an '‘unconscionable insult’' to Puerto Ricans, said the president of the National Puerto Rican Coalition, Manuel Mirabal. ''It is unacceptable that the Puerto Rican flag be used by ‘George Costanza ’ as a stage prop under any circumstances,'' Mr. Mirabal said. The Bronx Borough President, Fernando Ferrer, who is Puerto Rican, said the '‘Seinfeld’‘ episode ’‘crossed the line between humor and bigotry.’' Mr. Ferrer said it was a slur to depict men rioting and vandalizing a car and suggesting that it happens every day in Puerto Rico. NBC said it was sorry if anyone was insulted by the show’s humor. ''We do not feel that the show lends itself to damaging ethnic stereotypes, because the audience for ‘Seinfeld’ knows the humor is derived from watching the core group of characters get themselves into difficult situations,'' the network said in a statement. NBC’s president, Robert Wright, added, ''Our appreciation of the broad comedy of ‘Seinfeld’ does not in any way take away from the respect we have for the Puerto Rican flag.'' 2010-07-02 Wakai Yushi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB6NK-80Q6I&feature=related I quote Martin Luther the Friar and John Calvin the Bishop: THE POPE IS ANTICHRIST Meaning: http://www.youtube.com/user/DavyJonesLumey#p/a/f/0/LqBp-B9V3nk The Pope and Roman Catholics persecute the teachings of Jesus Christ. Very visible in comments here. Romanism is a state persecution system, started by the Roman Emperor Constantine for political reasons. Every Catholic is an Antichrist, the Pope is THE Antichrist. DavyJonesLumey 2010-07-02 Wakai Yushi Who or What is the Antichrist? The Bible prophecies teach this Antichrist power will play a crucial role in the final events of earth’s history. Do you know who he is? Are you sure? You need to be, for you can’t understand last-day events until you understand this evil power. http://www.youtube.com/user/charismaministry Disclaimer: The contents of this video are not intended to accuse individuals. It is our sincere desire to lay the clear Word of God before you, the truth-seeking reader, so you may decide for yourself what is truth and what is error. If you find herein anything contrary to the Word of God, you need not accept it. But if you desire to seek for Truth as for hidden treasure, and find herein something of that quality, we encourage you to make all haste to accept that Truth which is revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. 2010-07-02 somar96 I’ve been off for 7 days, too much to read now :/ Where did you get? And Kingofthebeast, your first post made no sense to me. I’m catholic myself. 2010-07-02 kingofthebesI Ok I’ll try and break thinks down for you. kingofthebesI What do you believe happens and why do you believe it? Atheism is not a claim as to anything it is the none-acceptance of the claim that most major religions have about what god is. There are SOME atheists who believe in reincarnation. The question was was about what atheists believe happens when we die. There is no official atheist position on the afterlife. Buddhists believe in reincarnation although not in a god hence they would be considered atheist. Other atheists may claim that the body decays and there is nothing after death. The question is a strawman assuming the atheist has the burden of proof Maybe you should ask yourself why you are catholic, even IF I were willing to grant that a deity or deities exist, why be catholic? There are thousands of religions with angry jealous gods just waiting to torment you in you in the so called afterlife if you fail to acknowledge them or live life in the correct way. Why are you catholic?, not why do you believe in yahweh! What if you have chosen the wrong religion? Aren’t you worried that you will be tortured for eternity if you are wrong? The pope a defender of life? what about the pope telling those in AIDS ravaged Africa that condoms spread disease? When they help prevent the spread of disease used properly. The catholic church position is condoms spread AIDS and that it is a sin to use them. That is immoral I don’t why that is so hard to understand. The current Pope reportedly called allegations of child abuse allegations petty gossip and was involved in a coverup of priests behaviour before becoming Pope! If you following the news you must know that the pope was widely being reported as being involved in a coverup of abuse by priest. If you listen to the pope who is your leader as a catholic you must have heard that he called the sex abuse allegations “petty gossip.” I notice from the number of games you have lost you are capable of making errors in judgment, why isn’t it possible that your believe in god is also an error in judgment? You and all catholics, as with all human being are fallible that means you make mistakes. Losing games is evidence you can make mistake, why can’t it be that you believing in god also a mistake. If you are interested in an atheistic response to a lot of religious claims then check out www.ironchariots.org Self-explanatory I would think. Kingofthebeast? I don’t believe in the devil either btw. Invisible sky god, talking snake, virgin birth, being killed for eating shellfish and eternal punishment for not believing invisible sky god make sense to you? Take Wakai’s advice and use your brain to think rather than blindly accepting everything the church and vatican does is right! 2010-07-02 somar96 lol sorry for misspelling your username. I noticed it after I posted, but couldn’t change it 2010-07-02 somar96 anyways it’s still unclear. what’s your religion? 2010-07-02 ypercube If you can’t find it by now, buy his autobiography. It’s on Amazon :) 2010-07-02 somar96 I don’t want to read through it 2010-07-02 kingofthebesI I have no religion, religion requires faith I require evidence. Have you read the Bible somar? 2010-07-02 erratic > “There are SOME atheists who believe in reincarnation.” One point in your favor: Unlike in religions, nobody decides if you are allowed to join atheism or not. So what follows is how I understand atheism. I would rephrase your statement as: “Some really confused people who call themselves atheists believe in reincarnation.” But seriously speaking there is no room for superstition, magic, supranatural or any other kind of irrational beliefs in atheism. A believer of reincarnation that calls himself an atheist is like a man who barks and pretends to be a dog. You may respect his right to be a dog, but come on, he’s not a real dog! Atheism is about accepting to live without all the answers. Accepting only scientific and rational way to reach rational answers and understanding that “revealed” answers are: * Provably wrong and, in most cases, even ridiculous. * An indecent procedure to establish hierarchies “word of god” vs “word of man” that make any serious intellectual debate impossible. * Understandable. Not everybody can reason or wants to dedicate his/her life to scientific research and thinking. You won’t win anything. You won’t get rich. Nobody promises you a paradise. Its only, as I said above, for grown up people who do not accept lies as explanations. BTW: In case someone includes me when they say we are laughing at religion. I have never been more serious about what I write in this forum than in this thread. I have just exposed things religious people do, like praying. If you think they are laughable, welcome to the club, it probably is because they are, not because I made any joke. 2010-07-03 FatPhil Has anyone else pointed out that almost all god-botherers are atheists in the eyes of almost all the gods that have been cooked up since the days when a tight control over the community/society was absolutely necessary for its survival? In hard numeric terms, I’m only one god more atheistic than the paed^H^H^H^HCatholics, we agree completely on the non-existence of millions of others. Ditto members of a million other religions, denominations, sects, or cults. 2010-07-03 kingofthebesI Erratic for me reincarnation has no evidence to support it. However you are wrong that buddhists are not atheistic. Buddhist do not accept the existence of “gods!” Atheism may come out of rationalism but it doesn’t mean that all atheist are rational on every issue. “Provably wrong”? if you are talking creationism vs evolution then you may have a point. Otherwise you are on dangerous ground, since you are in danger of having them successfully say you haven’t refuted the implausible claim and therefore atheism is just as much faith as belief in god...blah blah pascals wager and if there is a god or no god the chance must be 50/50. The celestial teapot idea is seemingly ridiculous good luck disproving it exists!! Another thing is if you come up with a good point they can claim you misinterpret the holy scripture, mischaracterised my god etc. Really the theist/deist must define the god and the basis for belief or a lot of time will be wasted. When talking to a zealot, they are closed minded and won’t be swayed but the moderate theist can be saved from a life of fear and tithing when they see just how weak the argument for god are and that the argument that a religion knows what “god” wants. FatPhil I tried to say even IF I accept a god exists why be catholic? The honest answer will be before they developed critical thinking skills the parent and/or sunday school drum into the child that the “bible” if true and you will go to hell (which the child considers real) if you don’t obey. Imagine a 6 year old with catholic parents saying “mummy daddy I've decided to worship allah and study the teachings of the prophet mohammed.” Isn’t it odd that Muslim parents tend to have children who profess to be muslim and the same for other religions. So far I haven’t seen any response as to why choosing to believe in a god couldn’t be a result of the same human error in judgment that causes us to lose games. www.atheistexperience.com live weekly call in show broadcast in texas public access tv and worldwide over the internet may be of interest to people in this thread. One a regular hosts actually studied to be be a priest. 2010-07-03 Wakai Yushi It appears every institution in existence has undergone scandals and controversies. And the Vatican is no exemption to it. Being the main office of the largest religious institution in the world and at the same time an independent state, the Vatican is very prone to leaders who could be so frail to succumb to the wayward side of this world. We need to punch into their mind the fact that a TRUE loving being we NOT induce suffering under ANY circumstances and there is also no prerequisite to perfect forgiveness. I hope I have made myself crystal clear to you (and any other readers) on this particular issue and these points. One must state it plainly. I haven’t seen any response as to why choosing to believe in a god’s Religions comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody –– not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms –– So far had the smallest idea what was going on being a result of the same human error in judgment that causes us to lose games by faith. Until people see the light of reality, instead of the darkness of religion, it’s incumbent that those of us on the less shadowy side of the divide challenge those who would keep us mired in superstition, irrationality, and addiction to blind faith. I don’t respect anyone’s faith, even if you say that you “respect” my “thoughts” as you have. I just don’t have any respect for blind faith. That’s just the way I am. So don’t ask me or expect me to “respect” your faith. Because I don’t. I just don’t. One most important point was missed here that no one mentioned. The belief in God really only comes from a “BOOK” that we don’t even know the author of. We all know throughout history that books come in many forms such as fiction or non-fiction. We don’t even know where this book should be referenced in. A writer has the full control to write about anything he choose whether real or unreal. Many travel the world in search of other world views. Have you noticed the “Time-date” the book is in? Even “Revelation” which is set in our future doesn’t project how it will really be, only how it was seen in the time it was written. There is no talk in the bible of dinosaurs, the earth not being flat. It was written by what someone or a group of someones knew at the time. If so much is the word of God that transends time, why is all the talk and experience all in one time period? Anyone could have written that book and for any reason or purpose. The reference to pictures and objects is pointless, a book can mean anything and take us on any journey the writer wishes us to go. Maybe this was the writers intention all along. Think about it! Live a life of “good”, but don’t waste your time believing in some wrathful, vengeful diety who punishes his creations for the very defects he built into them by banishing them to hell. This is an asinine belief founded in ignorance, superstition and fear. Do you want to spend eternity with such a sadistic creature? Such qualities would more likely be found in the devil. Look within yourself to what is prior to thought and concepts to see what is real. Maybe it was a dream that Jesus came to you in LG? Or maybe it was the Flying Spagetti Cookie Corrupt Monster in disguise: Mr. Naked Pope...Why are her features classically caucasian as in a Greek sculpture? Why not african, asian, semitic, or other worldly? Is it because as a caucasian, this is my subconscious standard of beauty? I definitely have appreciated some beautiful africans, asians, etc. 2010-07-03 Wakai Yushi Mind is very powerful and deceptive. We fool ourselves all the time. Information (phenomena) is filtered through our conditioning and beliefs. Muslims believe Mohammed speaks to them. Buddhists have dreams of Buddha imparting wisdom. A Christian would say they are being deceived. Buddhists and Muslims would say the Christian is being deceived. Maybe they are all being deceived by themselves. For the records thats the only time that they said the true.!! As for the existence of Pope Jan Pawel II , I could not care less. I have absolutely no interest in some supposed guy who may have existed (but more likely did not), and even if he really did exist, he was just some guy who has been dead for 2000 years. I am interested in the living, not the dead. Pope Jan Pawel II is nothing and no one to me. And the Pope Jan Pawel II are deluded, insecure, immature, and foolish, imo. that people now believe in, is a religious myth and an illusion. I have no use for such illusions. My own very real life is enough for me. People who believe in Pope Jan Pawel II Not to undermine Catholicism, they are some of the Popes who became diabolically remiss in their sacred duties. Tags: Pope, Pope Alexander VI, Pope Benedict IX, Pope Clement VII, Pope John XII, Pope Stephen VI, Vatican You can certainly believe in whatever illusions or realities that you choose to believe in, but don’t ask me to believe in them, to have faith in them, or to “respect” them. This is one of the big problems that I see with most Chatholic like yourself. You go around expecting that the rest of the world should believe as you do, and/or that they should “respect” your beliefs and your blind faith. But life just does not work that way. Why should I respect things which, to me, are nothing more than useless fantasies, myths, or illusions? Why should I respect faith in beliefs or illusions? I don’t. So don’t ask me to do so. And I also don’t care whether or not you agree with me or with my views. I don’t care if you don’t respect my views. My views are derived from direct experience and proven facts, not beliefs, so it doesn’t matter to me that you don’t see things my way. I am secure in my own direct experience and truth. But you on the other hand, because you are fundamentally insecure – because you have no direct experience, you desire for people to believe as you do and to respect your faith in those beliefs, so that you can then feel more secure and validated in your beliefs and blind faith. Thats the difference between you and I. I play chess an Go no Hex!! Sure, I could play along with your game like you want me to and say “OK I respect your beliefs and your faith”, BUT I would not be honest if I did that. I don’t respect blind faith. So I am not going to pretend that I do. To me, resorting to blind faith is not intelligent, it is weak and insecure, and so it makes no sense to me. I would ratrher have no faith, than to believe in illusions. The Wikipedia article, “The Bad Popes” follows the list of eight scoundrels, from Russell Chamberlain"s book of the same name: Pope Stephen VI (896-897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber Pope John XII (937-964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife. Pope Benedict IX (1032-1044,1045,1047-1048), who “sold” the Papacy Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303), who is lampooned in Dante’s Divine Comedy Pope Urban VI (1378-1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured. Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin. Pope Leo X (1513-1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors reserves on a single ceremony Pope Clement VII (1523-1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked. One can follow the links to individual articles from Wikipedia, or else links to Catholic Encyclopedia articles below: Pope Stephen VI (896-897) See also: Wikipedia: “Cadaver Synod” Pope John XII (937-964) See also: Wikipedia: “Pornocracy” / “Rule of the Harlots” [roughly the period of 904-963] Pope Benedict IX (1032-1044,1045,1047-1048) Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303) Pope Urban VI (1378-1389) Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503) See also: Wikipedia: "The Devil’s Charter"See also: Wikipedia: “Banquet of Chestnuts” [October 30, 1501] Pope Leo X (1513-1521) Pope Clement VII (1523-1534) Pope John Paul II Scandals involving priests who have sexually abused children have been a source of many problems for the Roman Catholic Church. Arguably worse than the sexual abuse, however, are the cover-ups and conspiracies of silence that have been found in the highest reaches of the Catholic hierarchy – even perhaps up to Pope John Paul II. What did the pope, John Paul, have to do with all this? Under John Paul II, local bishops’’ power and authority had been limited; he often acted as though he were the bishop of each diocese while the actual bishops are little more than his assistants. By treating the bishops as ““middle managers,â€â€ that’’s exactly the sort of management style that John Paul encouraged —— and with disastrous consequences. The news has been relentlessly bad for the Pope. Two weeks ago, Germany was scandalized by revelations that a pedophile priest was allowed to work again with children after being transferred in 1980 to the Archdiocese of Munich, which was then headed by the future Pontiff. Over the weekend, an apology the Pope issued for sexual abuse by Irish priests was deemed insufficient by many of the victims.... Abused deaf children, the Pope & Boulder Junction, Wisconsin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBPr97Qetk8&feature=player_embedded 2010-07-03 somar96 I haven’t read all of the Bible, just some parts and simplified versions. I guess I’m too young for that. But the evidence I have heard of and read is much more than enough. 2010-07-03 Gregorlo Since experiences of God are good grounds for the existence of God, are not experiences of the absence of God good grounds for the nonexistence of God? After all, many people have tried to experience God and have failed. Cannot these experiences of the absence of God be used by atheists to counter the theistic argument based on experience of the presence of God? 2010-07-03 kingofthebesI IF I was to hear what I believed was to me undeniably a message from a “god” that would be a good reason for me to believe, but it would not be a good reason for anyone else to believe if they could not experience what I had experienced. So you are right personal experience of someone else isn’t reason to believe. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is possible to rationalise away the fact that people fail to experience “god.” If don’t accept an argument from personal experience you limit the amount of insane rationalisations you have to deal with. Somar Some the stuff that you called “nonsense” was based upon passages of the bible, if you accept the bible as the word of “god” you should know what you a accepting. I don’t know how old you are but you should start to try and form your own decisions. What evidence do you believe there is of a “god?” What evidence do you have that catcholicism is god’s true religion? If you had muslim or hindu parents do you believe you would be a catholic? 2010-07-03 somar96 1. What I called “nonsense” seemed like a comepltely atheist post, maybe I didn’t understand it. 2. The evidence the Catholic Church gives is more than enough for me, no need for any personal decisions. 3. Some things that non-catholic Christians say/do are rather against general Christian views. Also Catholicism developed in straight line from the times of Jesus and beginning of Christianity, while the other ones were formed later, as a sign of protest. 4. Very hard to answer that, but I think that at my age I would still be the same religion as my parents, and would rather become a Catholic later on. 2010-07-03 Aganju @4.: or maybe you would become a terrorist? Fighting for the rightful kingdom of the Islam, against the unbelievers and imperialists? I think I find your answer hard to believe; the impression made environment and culture you grow up in, is so strong, you would probably not even know that there are catholics in the world. Try any x-year (don’t know your age) old islamist living deep in islam-country (wherever that is), what’s the chance he ever heard any details of any other belief? @3.: That’s a matter of interpretation; whenever something splits in two, each part can claim that it comes from the root. And of course each part would claim it is the rightful continuation. On of the major reasons protestants started ‘protesting’ against the popes was for example the process of ‘paying of your sins’ - ‘donate now and be forgiven’. The branch you seem to defend abandoned that practice later too, thereby agreeing that the ‘protestors’ were basically right. Of course they couldn’t let them ‘back in’; that would have been to obvious acknowledging the error. And they wouldn’t have wanted ‘back in’ any way, as they had found out that ‘church’ - the worldly representation of the cristian god – is a great business idea, and could feed multiple branches quite well. 2010-07-04 somar96 @@3. I know that, I learned that on history lessons. But those times have passed, while Protestants didn’t turn back to Catholicism... @@4. If I wouldn’t have heard about any other religion, there would be no choice :) of course I interpreted it as a situation where I would have a free choice 2010-07-04 Macbi @kingofthebesI People of all religions have experiences of god(s), and a majority of them must be wrong. Therefore, if I had a personal contact with god(s) that still wouldn’t be good evidence to believe (since the probability I would be correct would be less than 0.5) Also, absence of evidence is evidence of absence, to exactly the degree that you would expect presence to cause evidence. Note that I’m just clarifying what counts as evidence and what doesn’t, I wouldn’t stoop so low as to argue religion on the internet. 2010-07-04 kingofthebesI @macbi If you saw an alien, were satisfied as best you could be that it wasn’t a hoax and were taken aboard its spaceship, would you be justified to believe you had seen an alien and encountered an alien? Now suppose the only evidence of this alien is you seeing it, why should I believe that an alien has visited you. What if you witnessed someone, who everyone believed to be of impeccable moral character commit a really heinous crime. Are you justified in believing what you saw despite the fact nobody believes you. Suppose millions of deluded people see the characters of various scifi shows use different mobile phone like device to communicate well before the invention of the mobile phone. Now if people who watched these shows all agreed the device exist for real, but say there is only one true device and the other shows are fiction. Now you get your hands on a working mobile phone and lose it before you can prove the phone is real, by your logic the chance you had a mobile phone are less than 50% because there are many deluded scifi fans who believe a bunch of different shows fictitious communication device are real. You should consider that you have to accept your own personal experience is probably what is real or go mad. The star trek communicator never existed but we do have mobile phones. The current reasonable belief is there is no reason to accept any omnipotent deity exists. Now IF credible science was to show me the probable existence of an onmipotent entity I would probably probably be a deist. Now I don’t believe that credible science will ever claim a deity is probable!! Buddhism is a religion that doesn’t experience “god”. If a defendant is found not guilty it means the prosecution failed to prove their case and not that the defendant was innocent. The prosecution may fail to prove a case it does not mean that sufficient evidence of guilt doesnt exist, it means that it wasn’t found. The absence of evidence of guilt does automatically mean the defendant can claim they were proven innocent. 2010-07-04 kingofthebesI *..does not automatically mean the defendant can claim they were proven innocent! 2010-07-05 scottygr8 Forgot to take my last turn : wakai yushi ( whoever you are ) - Great to hear all of your animosity & br>venom directed to all of the ( “evil” & misguided as you say ) past popes! Then you continue onward with this idea of the Church hiding & keeping wicked priests, etc. etc. Am glad I never read ‘your’ history books. ( This is like your political-platform or rather anti-religious). As my father said ( my dad, not God ) , when a tree has some bad apples in it , most would not cut down the tree. Instead, get rid of the apples. Then dad ( a teacher/coach for years) talked about quitters & losers standing by the fence ..... As long as the team is Winning, they sit by -But the minute the Team starts losing, here come the ‘quitters &amp; losers’ to toss some ROCKS your way. Personally, I can Heave Rocks with anyone ! The Stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone ( one of my protest. friends says this stone is Jesus ). But I always thought it was Peter – the name means ‘ rock ’ right ? But then Peter was given the keys to heaven... some say no, it is only Jesus. I believe in the holy trinity – the Father, the Son , & holy spirit. Anyhow, or as John Madden says, & another thing... You sit on your throne here & you profess to what you do not believe! Fine, have it your way – As for all of these mis-guided leaders, priests , bishops, preachers like Jim Jones, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert, etc. etc. ( every time a leader fails, his ministry begins to crumble – people lose faith & I guess it 's easier to become a quitter ). Am speaking of other christian leaders who have fallen – due to various sultry reasons ... Guess I have kept a mental journal & could write many books on this subject. (My point) I have been told that each is to answer or account for their own sins. I am referring to any & all of the above. Alas, we have also learned about forgiveness. Am trying now to forgive BP for destroying life, property, & businesses. The key is who or what do we seek for forgiveness? Some of you say things like ‘blind faith’ , and the ‘AntiChrist.’ I do know that when sinners repent that there is much joy in heaven; ( you have read the verse ) I presume. Gosh – the coffee has gotten cold......... Do you also know the story of Jesus on the Cross and the two ( 2 men ) put to death alongside him? One repents & the other mocked him ? ( “ you fool, was it he said ..... if you are God then save us?”... then the Roman soldiers spat on him & fed him sour wine... ) 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi “Does it produce fruit of the spirit?” well, God cannot produce hurt, bruised and damaged fruit. He can’t contradict Himself. And I am proof that these whacky ‘revelations’ claiming to be from God...have produced damaged ‘fruit’ in the past! “YOU will know them by their fruit!” Unfortunately for both the mistaken ““Jewsâ€â€ and mistaken ““Christiansâ€â€, most will ignore these truths until it is too late, and will suffer accordingly. They will also hate anyone who tries to show them their error, and seek to punish the messengers, exactly as our Lord Yeshua prophesied. [Matthew 24:9-10]The bottom line is most “Christians” are in one form or another worshiping and promoting the Idolatry handed down by Babylon through the Catholic traditions. ( “ you fool, was it he said ..... if you are God then save us?”... then the Roman soldiers spat on him & fed him sour wine... ) And that’s nothing to laugh at! It appears every institution in existence has undergone scandals and controversies. And the Roman Vatican is no exemption to it. Being the main office of the largest religious institution in the world and at the same time an independent state, the Vatican is very prone to leaders who could be so frail to succumb to the wayward side of this world. The same is true of the Roman Catholic churches, and of the Jewish synagogues and the Islamic mosques. What we are about to discuss has to do with what the LEADERS’’ goals are, and what that means to all of us. It is no way an indictment of any INDIVIDUAL’’S beliefs, except insofar as they happen to correspond to the beliefs of the leaders. Having said that, we press on. And why do we care? Primarily because, according to the Bible, the Christian Church is “grafted inâ€â€ to Israel [Romans 11:17-23], and today we have a nation which calls itself ““Israelâ€â€, and that nation is peopled by individuals and organizations which call themselves ““Jewsâ€.Our task is to try to decide if today’’s secular, man-invented nation of “Israelâ€â€ has any real, spiritual connection to the righteous spiritual Israel of the Bible, and whether those who call themselves ““Jewsâ€â€ have any legitimate spiritual connection to the Israel into which the Church has been “graftedâ€. These are not trivial issues, and the answers are clouded in centuries of anti-Jewish Christian traditions, anti- Christian Jewish traditions, anti-Torah traditions of both those who call themselves ““Christiansâ€â€ and ““Jewsâ€â€, and the continuing deceptions, ““spinâ€â€, and outright lies by some ““Jewsâ€â€ and by some ““Christiansâ€â€. So some definitions are definitely needed. This charge is all the more remarkable for its stupidity, since about 85% of all ““Jewsâ€â€ worldwide ARE NOT SEMITES themselves, being descended, not from Shem, Noah’’s middle son (which is what ““Semiteâ€â€ means), but from the Khazars, who originated in the Central Caucasus area of eastern Europe! So, who ARE ““the Jewsâ€â€ today? But, since virtually every major news media is also (fact) owned by these same few Jewish families and the corporations and banks which they own and control, this is NEVER discussed in any way that the public would become widely aware of the issues. Which is the object of their control: our continuing ignorance. 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi The Illuminati was designed for the specific purpose of organizing and carrying out the specific plan for world domination conceived in Satan’’s mind and expressed in the Kabbalah. (Isaiah 14:9-16; Ezekiel 28:13-19) The theology exemplified by this stuff is just regurgitated Gnosticism, which is all WoF is. When you start breaking down these teachings you see all the ancient heresies at work. Be careful arguing with the devil, look where it got Eve. When you read Tanach (Hebrew Bible) over and over again HaShem declares that He is not a man. And that beside Him there is no other. No other. *In xtian belief, what “name is above every other name” ? What is the only name given for our salvation? Do you see the problem here? The name of jesus/yeshua is said to be that name. Thus he becomes an idol. Do you understand how serious the sin of idolatry is to HaShem? Do you understand that to believe a man is G-d, and that man is “L-rd of L-rds and King of Kings” defames HaShem? *The most important commandment, given to Jews and gentiles as well (gentiles in the universal laws of Noah) is to have no other gods before the one and true G-d, HaShem. Who is not and never will be a man. Yet as a xtian, I bowed down before an idol, I placed a man on HaShem’s throne – HaShem who clearly says “I will never share my glory with another.” l of you who are xtians have been exposed to the same experiences. *xtians believe eventually the Jews will have their eyes opened up to see that the man/god is truly the messiah and that they must worship him – and if not, then they are destined for eternal damnation. The Hebrew Bible never says such things, but the exact opposite. I know it is difficult for xtians to understand why when they attempt to missionize Jewish people, that they are so stubborn in clinging to HaShem and His Torah. Try to understand you are asking them to commit idolatry and nothing less! I am not good at debating but I would ask that you who keep trying to convince the Jews that jesus is G-d and that they should believe in him for their salvation need to try and see it from the perspective of “You shall have no other gods before Me.” My only question I maintain is, are you searching for truth or have you made up your mind & closed yourself to any other possibility of what the truth may be. In a way it is kind of cool to see someone post who would quote the New Testament to Jews as if it will have any effect at all. I think it is interesting because I believe you represent the majority of Christians, and in a way it is like responding to the entire Christian population in one person. The real truth is that nobody has “Jesus in their heart”. They may be committed to a belief, or have an emotional investment in their religion and even claim a “personal relationship with Jesus”. But the facts and imperical evidence do not bear that out, and in fact prove it false. When I have asked Christians what it means to have this “personal relationship” they are forced to concede that it is not REALLY a personal relationship in the way we would have one with a real live and interactive person. Most who say “he walks with me and he talks with me” will admit that they never actually “hear” anything from Jesus at all. I have asked some of these people who “talk with Jesus” to ask him something for me and bring back the answer. They say they will, and then I never hear from them again. If I have a personal relationship with someone, I can ask them what their favorite color is and they will answer me, and then give the same answer to anyone who asks. The three persons of the trinity do not appear capable of being consistent with those whom they have “personal relationships” with, to the extent of telling one person one thing and another person the complete opposite. But you are right, I do not accept that a human sacrifice can atone for yours or mine sins, nor that God ever asked for one. I do not “test God”. I know who God is and need not test him. I test doctrines and the words of men because I have been tricked and lied to by Christians for fourty years. Not the same thing. You are twisting words and events to suit your own agenda, which is to proselytze on these boards. You state “Christianity has already reached the four corners of the world” So then why are there still missionaries? Why do you find televangilists? What are they spreading? I used to listen to these people on T.V. to hear what they had to say. Till it got so stupid in my eyes that I almost threw up. Then I said, this garbage was enough. Anyway, my point was, these people were always saying how new countries were starting to get their broadcasts that had never been exposed before to as they called it “the word of god”. etc... So I ask, if there are constantly new viership coming about, how can you say that it is all over? I guarrantee you it is not all over. I know most places in Israel have absolutely no idea. Sure they heard the name jesus, but all they know is Christianity is idol worship. (& this is good, because there is really no need for them to know all the gory details) Btw... lest you think that such is the case only in Israel, know that even here in New York amongst most Orthodox Jews, such is the case. (thank G-D) I happen to have studied the new test so I can’t rule myself in this category but most of my friennds have absolutely no idea what it says other than that it is full of anti G-D statements & idolatry. & they are 100% correct. 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi You may be surprised that a personal relationship with G-D was not invented by the xtians. It is and always has been part of Judaism. That’s just one of the little distortions taught in churches. Another is that the Oral Torah is irrelevant. By that rule, then the entire NT is irrelevant because it was stories written down much after the events, and not by the people whose names are in large letters at the beginning of each book. Do some research on who maybe wrote the gospel of Mark, and whether someone added a few sentences at the end of the last chapter to give it more oomph. Most scholars agree Matthew didn’t write Matthew and that Luke didn’t write Luke. Xtians ridicule the Talmud as commentary – but by that logic, the entire NT is commentary. I’ve been down this road for a few years now, and discovered that I have been robbed of the truth of what is in Torah by religions that use lies, force, brutality, fear and coercion for their own ends. I suggest you do some research on Martin Luther, what a lovely person he was. (NOT). He came out of the catholic church, and the protestant churches evolved from Luther’s ravings. Do some research on Origens, and discover how literally he took the suggestion about ‘cutting off something that offends you’ . Paul was feuding with the other apostles. Are these the teachers we want to emulate. I think not. Rather, how about a simple message from Micah - And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your G-d. The Torah was given to Moses with millions of people as witnesses. If one person came forward and said he didn’t hear the voice of G-D at Sinai, then all those people never would’ve accepted the laws given to them. In contrast, the other two religions, and tens of thousands of cults have developed by one person having a vision, an experience, a night flight from Mecca to Jerusalem with no layovers. No witnesses. Angel gives man a book, man loses it somewhere. No witnesses., and on and on. Man comes home and finds his fiancee pregnant. No witnesses. But to make the story work, man has a vision. No witnesses. Paul has a blinding light and falls off his donkey. Witnesses see something, but hear nothing – or do they hear something, but see nothing. Hmmm – which version should I believe? Check your NT. Then the trinity box is built about 300 CE and father,son and holy ghost are jammed into it. If you don’t say the right words in the right order, then you’re not a believer. The answer to any question raised is that it is a “matter of faith”. Well, that only works until you start studying the scriptures on your own (in the original language). Perhaps that is why the church discouraged its people from having their own scriptures. Perhaps discouraged is not the correct word. How about forbade or prohibit?? >>Canon 14. We PROHIBIT also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.<< Were they concerned that someone might starting asking these questions?? Why does the church distort the 10 commandments? Why does the church have all these plastic, plaster, and wood images forbidden by the 2nd commandment? Why did the church remove part of the commandment about honoring father and mother? What happened to the real Passover, and the other real feasts ordained by G-D? What did the church do to the eternal covenant of the Sabbath? Where did Christmas come from? What do bunnies and eggs have to do with Easter? Why did the church kill scientists who said the earth is round? Why did the church provide pre-murder absolution to crusaders to burn people in their synagogues? Who invented replacement theology anyway??? Oh yes, I almost forgot...when will the vatican return the temple menorah to its rightful owners? I would’ve thought that when the pope went to Israel last summer, that he would’ve filled a few suitcases with some of the loot taken from the temple. But that’s just me. So your religion, my ex-religion, was birthed by that church. Is that the path I want to continue to follow? A religion of murderers, torturers, self-mutilaters, robbers, deceivers?? I think not. And as you said, “and many more questions can follow...” “Man's love of G-D is identical with his knowledge of Him ” - Maimonides in The Guide for the Perplexed 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi Thus, any person who resist cooperating with the Inquisition may themselves be accused of being a heretic and tortured before the Inquisition. What a tool of coercion has just been handed the Inquisitors, as the average town citizen will gladly say anything the Inquisitor wants him to say. However, the full impact of this priestly threat is lost on most people today, because they have little or no specific knowledge as to what the Roman Catholic Inquisition was all about. Even though this Inquisisiton lasted 1,200 years, and claimed up to 75 million victims, history books since World War I have been so rewritten that they have largely omitted the true horror of the Inquisition. Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church stated that the reason witchcraft had so dramatically increased, thus demanding a harsh corrective response through the machinery of the Inquisition, is that certain men and women — wizards and witches — had entered into a pact with the devil to create much evil. No explanation was given as to why this activity was suddenly increased so badly during this particular time in history. I found it highly interesting that the priest who is the author of this handbook of the Inquisition lists a number of sins so hideous that he believes not even the demonic host will perform it — demons may have regular sex with human beings, but they would never commit the hideous sin of sodomy or homosexuality, because they are “against the laws of nature”, and so repugnant that not even fallen, evil angels will participate in it, so says this Catholic Inquisition Manual. We have done our homework, and have discovered the standard operating manual that undergirded the entire Inquisition; it is called “The Malleus Maleficarum”, and we have studied it, in depth. We apologize for the length of this treatise, but we felt it was unavoidable if we were to reveal the true nature of this terrible Inquisition. This sexual perversion centered on female witches, and their supposed sexual relations with demons. Toward this end, “The Malleus Maleficarum” is a most enlightening document, as it demonstrates the sudden, new terror facing any woman living during the time of the Great Inquisition; if she was ever accused of being a witch, she could find herself being tortured in a very special way, as we detail below. Since this is the opinion of women in the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy., is it any wonder that women felt especially vulnerable to the Inquisition? With priests who have this unbelievably distorted view of the basic lack of worth of a woman, is it too much to understand they tortured women the way in which they did? We shall come back to this issue shortly, with pictures. Given the continuous carnal lust obsession and perversion of the “celibate” Catholic priesthood, one has to ask whether this treatise on Witches copulating with Devils is more the product of a “sex-starved clergy” than as a result of reality? You will discover how effective a threat by a priest could be, to lie to the Inquisition if a woman refused to have sex with him; the most effective manner in which a priest could lie to the officers of the Inquisition would be to declared that he had discovered, through the woman’s confession, that she was a witch. Since accusation is equal to guilt, this woman would be subjected to the types of torture described below.“It often happens, at that infernal tribunal, that while an unhappy and probably an innocent person is crying out in their presence on the rack and begging by all that is sacred for one moment's relief ... the Inquisitor and the rest of that inhuman crew, quite unaffected by his complaints and deaf to his groans, to his tears and entreaties, are entertaining one another with the news of the town; nay, sometimes they even insult, with unheard of barbarity, the unhappy wretches in the height of their torments.” [Ibid., p. 254]"There are various proofs which are sufficient warrant for exposing you to the question and torture. Wherefore, that the truth may be known from your own mouth, and that henceforth you may not offend the ears of the Judges, we declare, judge and sentence that on this present day at such an hour you be placed under the question and torture." 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi “And while she is being questioned about each several point, let her be often and frequently exposed to torture ... while this is being done, let the Notary write all down, how she is tortured and what questions are asked and how she answers ... The next step of the Judge should be that, if after being fittingly tortured, she refuses to confess the truth, he should have other engines of torture brought before her ... And the Notary shall write all down in the process.” This is the true face of the Roman Catholic Church, and it is a face from the abyss of Hell! Remember, as Rome says of herself: “Rome never changes”. In fact, sadistic rape by the priest, or priests of the Inquisition, was very common. Thus, a woman contemplating the Inquisition would know from the gossip mill that sadistic rape would be one of the tortures facing her if she were ever accused of being a witch and turned over to the Inquisition authorities! What woman would not submit to a priest’s demand in the Confessional to have sex with him, or be turned over to the “Holy” Inquisition? You can imagine what this type of action against a woman might turn into when performed by a priest who is sex-starved through celibacy. As the priest put his fingers into the woman’s sexual parts to “search for a piece of parchment”, he is likely to become so sexually aroused as to go out of control; indeed, this was the plan on the part of many a priest during the Inquisition, as this was his opportunity to vent his pent-up sexual lust. What? I had heard that Roman Catholicism teaches this abomination heresy, but this is the first time I have actually seen it in print. What a Biblical abomination to the purity of Jesus Christ, in whose Name this “Church” is supposedly founded! The Bible does not teach this nonsense at all, because sin is sin, and there is no weight of sin with God. But, this teaching is the kind that appeals to the unregenerate human mind, to human reasoning without God. This teaching alone should convince anyone of the stupidity of accepting human teaching — Tradition of the Church — as being equal to Holy Scripture, every word of which is spoken by God. The Pharisees of Jesus' day had committed this sin, teaching that the Jewish Traditions of the Fathers was equal to that of Holy Scripture. After condemning this Tradition, Jesus said: “Why do you also transgress and violate the commandment of God for the sake of the rules handed down to you by your forefathers?” [Matthew 15:2] Jesus then gives several examples of these types of traditions taught as Scripture. Then, He says: “So for the sake of your tradition you have set aside the Word of God, depriving it of force and authority and making it of no effect.” [Matthew 15:6] This is exactly what “Saint” Augustine has done by this ruling quoted above! He has set aside the Word of God, making it of no effect! He is teaching the reasoning of men as though it were Scripture. Listen to what Jesus calls this type of person. “You pretenders, hypocrites!” [Matthew 15:7] 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi This is the rationale behind current Bishops hiding the sins of their pedophile priests, and of moving them from parish to parish instead of properly handing them over to legal authorities. Always, in every era, the Roman Catholic Church is very aware of her consistent sins and of the onerous actions she takes that would strip away her facade of holiness and legitimacy; therefore, in every era, the Catholic Church is more sensitive about her public reputation than about any other matter, including the souls of the innocent women & children caught in her vatican pornogrphy web roman images. What kind of a person could possibly make this kind of threat? What kind of priest could make such a hellish threat to a sincere woman penitent who only came to his confessional to receive pardon from God for her sins? But, first, let us examine “The Malleus Maleficarum”, to discover what it is all about. This is an exceedingly long manual, even as we abridged it mightily. Any real “seeker of truth” will spend the time and effort to read this entire document. In some cases, you will think you are reading twisted pornography! Once you combine an understanding of the facts of the Inquisition with the operating manual by which the Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, and Priests operated the murder campaign, you get a very good look at the true face of Roman Catholicism. If you have studied this material in depth, you will see the false facade that the Catholic Church has maintained for centuries literally melt away! These are the kinds of Cardinals and Bishops who would protect their known pedophile priests instead of removing them so they could not have access to young children, and who shield them from the legal system. 2010-07-06 scottygr8 ... so now you portend to understand man’s love of God ( a God you feel does not exist ) .. his knowledge of Him ! ! ! ( so men you study no very little I see ) **{ I hear a train in the distance... it reminds me of my grandfather}. He said a Leopard will not change his spots ; And bluejays do not fly with blackbirds. ( yes , you are like the Leopard ) **Dad was right when he said , you must get rid of all of the bad apples ! But save the tree! * side notes * ( A papal message ) The man who has Hope lives differently; The man who has hope has been granted the gift of a new life. 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi These are the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests of the Church of Rome. This is the true face of the Roman Catholic Church, the church that “never changes”. ROME’S VENERATION OF THE VIRGIN MARY IS SIMPLY A CONTINUATION OF THE WORSHIP OF THE VIRGIN MOTHER – DIVINE CHILD IN THE PAGAN SUN GOD TRADITION! Subtitle: While Catholics believe they are venerating the Virgin Mary and Divine Child Jesus in the Biblical tradition, the evidence is overwhelming that they are really continuing the Egyptian and Babylonian pagan tradition of worshipping the Sun Goddess and her Divine Son. Once more, Roman Catholicism is shown to be counterfeit Christianity on the surface but Sun God paganism throughout underneath! When people see visions of Mary, the mother of Jesus, for instance, they are seeing the devil or one of his demons masquerading as Mary. Mary is asleep in her grave awaiting her resurrection, as we have just read from the Bible. Seeing a vision like this can be overwhelmingly deceptive. We must realize that God cannot lie to us. This is just ? a blatant twisting of Catholic teaching designed to fool the uninformed and to ensure that those already mired by such views stay where they are. Roman Catholicism is nothing more, nor less, than a resurrection of the ancient Egyptian Satanic Sun God worship. So many symbols point to this reality — especially the Sun God Dagon Mitre, the veneration of the round wafer and other round symbols used within Catholic worship — all given the same meanings the ancient Satanists assigned them. If you have not yet read this article, we suggest you stop and do so now, so you will better understand the information presented here. At the end of this article, we shall draw together the Pope, the Virgin Mary and Jesus just as the pagans draw together Osiris, Isis, and Horus! What the Bible says is the truth. Mary is asleep in her grave and cannot appear to anyone. The Virgin Mary – Worshiping Her Is Evil The Pope deleted the 2nd of the 10 commandments so they could use statues & images in worship. They split the 10th commandment on coveting into two commandments so they could still have 10 in ? number. Look at the list ? of 10 commandments published by the rcc! The issue here is not how the Ten Commandments are numbered, rather the issue is that most published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words, “you shall not for yourself an idol”. The papacy has made colossal fools of untold millions of people down through history, and it is still doing so today. 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZY7jO9oLPk&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/georgeamarcelo The Roman Catholic Church is the religion of ancient Babylon pretending to be a Christian Church. This is why idolatry still exists in the Catholic Church. hi all, catholicism is the worst fraud perpetrated on human kind ever.it is designed to keep people out of heaven by praying to dead people they call saints.its sad to watch catholics defend their sad faith.by there fruits ye shall know them.pedophile priests and lesbian nuns, black mass, ritual satan worship in the vatican and other churches.money laundering, murder, inquisitions, forbiding people to read the bible.thats just a start.and they say jesus founded that church. that shows how idiot those catholics are Comment by wayne | April 17, 2009 Here is the thing: I belong to Gd. I cannot and will not worship an idol, which is exactly what I did refute to believe in the non-virgin mary for most of my life. I, who live only because Gd gave me life and sustains my life, have only one purpose in life: to serve Gd. To cling to Him and never again prostitute myself and bow down to another corrupt pope, idolastry. It is only by the supreme creator’s loving mercy that the blindness over my soul has always been removed. I know you don’t understand the idea why worshipping jesus is idolatry or may or/and the SUV Bisop poe. Yet now that I understand this truth, now that I realize the gravity of my sin, and the greatness and tenderness of universe creator’s mercy to allow me to return to Him alone as G-d and to cleanse me of my filth, I can never return to that sin. Gd could have destroyed me, and had valid reason to do so, but He did not. I cling to the supreme being and master or all multi-universed alone his name Yaveth. CHECK MATE!! 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi He said a Leopard will not change his spots ; And bluejays do not fly with blackbirds. ( yes , you are like YOU grampa) you remind me of my grandfather too. "En passant" 2010-07-06 Wakai Yushi 97.p8 98.Pass 2010-07-06 kingofthebesI It is not checkmate I can take your bishop! 2010-07-07 scottygr8 End of my Discussion ! ( wonder why I even bother with these assinine forums ! ) If I met you I’d punch the crap ( hell ) out of you. Check Shit – Take care of your soul(s) 2010-07-07 scottygr8 Yes, a true soldier loves violence 2010-07-07 Paul Gautherot John Paul II is dying in -46 135 hours -24 minutes 2010-07-07 kingofthebesI Are threats of violence considered decent christian behaviour? Are threats of violence considered OK on this forum? 2010-07-07 FatPhil scottygr8 – if you keep noticing that these fora are assinine, did you ever stop to consider that the only common factor shared by those fora is that you were contributing to them? However, your punching argument is very convincing – I’m a big girls blouse and therefore will convert to your no-doubt wonderful religion in order to avoid punches. Oh, shit, I’ve done that wrong – I’m supposed to ask you to punch me on both cheeks now I’m converted, aren’t I? 2010-07-08 Wakai Yushi Dear Ki ngofthebesI You right is not checkmate You can take your bishop! Woops! For the cross. 's not just catholic priests. Although the numbers of molestations seem to be considerably higher among the celibate crowd, many pastors of protestant churches are guilty of the same thing. I saw on a blog recently – a man in his 60’s had grown up in a protestant christian home & community. His grampa warned him never to be alone with a preacher. Imagine that! I personally know pastors with, shall we say, deviant leanings. And this is aside from all the scandals we hear in the news. I think the pope, priests, and all pastors should be criminally charged when this happens. And the fact that the pope cannot be impeached would be great if the pope was, well, perfect, but he’s a human being in a very sick institution. No accountability. If you’’re trying to educate them at the same moment that they’’re throwing people in the fire, I think it might be too late. You’’ve crossed that event horizon. It doesn’t matter whether saying that Catholicism and science are incompatible will drive people away from one or the other. All that matters if whether it’s true: if it’s true, you say it, no matter the consequences, and if not, don’t. http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/04/19/burned-at-the-stake-after-being-accused-of-witchcraft/ The very notion of ““demonsâ€â€ has but one purpose socially…… and that’’s as a tool to set another human being to a status below that of the rest of humanity. To demonize someone is to literally define them below the threshold of human existence, and therefore outside of the protections we grant our fellow peaceable neighbors. With its new found power the Catholic church declared itself the supreme dictator of all Christian knowledge. The Catholics became the sole interpreters of the divine will. They called their doctrines orthodoxy, and any who disagreed with them were labeled heretics. The Roman Catholic Church has developed many doctrines which cannot be remotely proven from the Bible. For example, the Assumption of Mary. Exodus 20:1-17 The number Two Commandment should be “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.” Exodus 20:4. Check your Catechism to see if they have left it out. Question: Why do you think they left it out? Every Catholic institution has images of Mary, Jesus and male and female figures. An example of this are two statues at the French Papal Palace of Avignon, one of Jesus about 20 meters above ground level, and the other is an enormous statue of Mary, much larger, grander and higher up than that of Jesus. This gives the greater honor to Mary than Jesus. It also clearly breaks the second commandment forbidding making images of things in heaven. This idea is found NO WHERE in the Bible. This idea was official dogma in 451 AD. Note these Bible verses disproving this false doctrine: a) “Joseph took unto him his wife: and knew her not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son ...” Matthew 1:25. This means that Joseph knew Mary sexually in normal marriage relations after Jesus was born. b) Jesus' fellow Nazareth townsfolk who grew up with Him asked: “Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? and his brothers, James, Joses, Simon and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us?” Matthew 13:55,56. Jesus here has brothers (adelphos) and sisters (adelphai). Catholicism attempts to explain these away as cousins. This cannot be valid because the Greek word for cousin is “anephios.” Mark 6:3 also translates these as “brothers” and “sisters”. c) Jesus had brothers: “Neither did his brethren believe in Him.” (John 7:5) “These all continued ... with his brethren.” (Acts 1:14) Nine times the Bible says that Mary was not a perpetual virgin. Peter is NOT the first Pope, with supremacy over the Church because of these reasons: At the Jerusalem council in Acts 15:13-19, the advice of James not Peter was sought and followed. James, not Peter was the spokesman who handed down the decision. If Peter was the first Pope, he would have had a greater position than the other disciples. When the disciples discussed which of them of the greatest in Mark 9:33-35, Jesus had a great chance to affirm Peter’s headship as the first Pope, but Jesus simply said that the greatest shall be a servant of all. Thus Jesus showed no special Papal leadership to Peter. Nor should we. 2010-07-08 Wakai Yushi Therefore, the monstrosity of the Inquisition stands before mankind as the ultimate evidence of the inherent Satanism of the Roman Catholic Church. For those who have the courage to examine this ultimate “rotten fruit”, they will see the truth of the Catholic Church. And do not think Rome has changed, for the Bible tells us that a Leopard does not change its spots [Jeremiah 13:23], and Rome is always bragging that she never changes. A concrete proof of this fact is that Pope Paul VI (1963-1978) restored the Office of the Inquisition, renamed today as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith [“Lives of the Popes”, by Richard P. McBrien, HarperSanFrancisco, 1997, p. 282, 354]. Today, this nefarious Office of the Inquisition is headed by Cardinal Ratzinger. If you’re willing to silence the truth because it has political consequences you don’t like, you have no right to be speaking about science, or even to eat of its fruits. There isn’t one shred of evidence that you, or anyone else, can produce that could distinguish a Bible written by God from one written by Satan. Unfortunately, a religions “birth rate” is much like that of a bacterium. You can wipe out 99% of the population with reason, good sense, truth, and education, but it is always poised for a resurgence. That has got to be the most evil-looking pope ever! These include defiling the Eucharist, which Catholics believe is the body and blood of Christ. Stafford said this offense is occurring with more and more frequency, not just in satanic rites but by ordinary faithful who receive Communion and then remove the host from their mouths and spit it out or otherwise desecrate it. The followers of Christ were characterized by not minding his cannibalistic tendencies, the ‘beloved’ John, implicitly recognizes. Cannibalism, symbolic or not, became a Christian’s definition. Saint Cyril, Anasthasius, and company, accepted cannibalism. No doubt it encouraged them to spill the blood, and tear the flesh, of those thousands who denied them. When you follow a cannibal, you tear and share human flesh. CANNIBALS AND CHRIST ALIKE CALL FLESH MEAT. How metaphorical is that? After the establishment of the Universal Christian dictatorship (~ 383 CE), total unanimity of the reality of cannibalism is found across the Universal Christian church for eight centuries. Berengarius of Tours (France, 11 C) was one of the first to doubt the real presence of Christ, as everyone took a bite. But the Council of Rome proclaimed that the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ and not just a symbol (1079 CE: Berengarius recanted).Not violent, but possibly disturbing as I fear it may break the 3rd commandment “You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” I know it has been a moot point in the Church. Read more: Does anybody else find the image of Jesus on the cross violent? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1598113#ixzz0t3ymVOLP 2010-07-08 Wakai Yushi Violent image for a violent religion. Soon afterwards, the one and only crusade called on European soil against Europeans was fought against those who thought that Christ’s cannibalism was, on the face of it, an atrocity and a proof that the Devil reigned in the “Universal Church”, rather than a just and good God. Half of Southern France or so, was massacred, and thereafter lived under terror of the Inquisition for a century (see below). Metaphors can be powerful…… Especially when extolling flesh as meat, and blood as drink. Wrong again, violence is murdering babies, sucking out their brains, scalding them to death with salien solution, cutting them to pieces with a curette, sucking them apart with a vacuum, breaking their necks or drowning them in their mother’s blood after an abortion fails to me is, maybe not to you, but to me is violence. Further, I dont think that there is any question that there is a dying of Christianity if we choose to use polls from the internet or newspapers etc...Are we really going to sit here and say that these polls are the end all, be all?!? Are we really going to say that these polls not given in person, nor given in person by somebody who is a honest and true Christian as its meant to be are asking deep and meaningful questions to determine the true nature of the responses? Billy Graham some years ago said that most(up to 50%) who claim to be saved or noted as christians are really not. To me, the decline of Christianity is no mystery at all. As long as we, as a society, continue our quest for knowledge, and continue to educate our children, to fill their heads with the latest wonders of science and mathematics, religion will continue to fade. I doubt it will ever disappear, but I predict that within my lifetime, America will become at least 50% non-Christian. Actually there is a God, and he only chooses to reveal himself, and intimately care for, certain people. This is the doctrine of election. It is apparent, that you at this point do not seem to be one of those people. So, those of us that are elect don’t actually have to “convince” you of anything. We just need to sit back and see rather the Creator and Sustainer of the whole universe will ever incline your mind and soul to seek after something greater than yourself. If he does we will be happy for you. If He does not, we will be sad for you but that will change nothing about how good this God is. Many of the worlds true intellectuals have supported this line of thinking (see Pacal, Bach, Newton,Pasteur etc.) Let me know when and if that time comes and I’d be grateful to dialog further. I propose we stop hoping and start working to overcome irrationality. 2010-07-08 erratic > “those of us that are elect ..” !!! With George W. Bush, you are the second person I have heard of to whom god talks. Not even the pope has made such a claim to my knowledge. And? What extraordinary knowledge are you going to share with mankind now? Why is it so hard to understand that there is nothing in between: A prophet is either a scumbag or the most extraordinary happening in history. The latter has unfortunately not been observed yet, otherwise something relevant and verifiable would have been revealed to mankind. But it happens that relevant and verifiable knowledge always came from Science and no scientist ever claimed that it had been revealed to him/her. 2010-07-08 Gregorlo are you joking? are you reading his posts?? :D 2010-07-08 ypercube Yes, I think he does read all the posts. You can forgive him though Gregorio, he’s just one year in the site, he doesn’t know what he’s doing :) 2010-07-08 Carroll ★ Oh I was nearly going to ask Wakai what pleasure he had to speak in the desert like this, but I was wrong! So please keep on with these very interesting posts... I’ll admit I have not read, except first sentence about a chess game against Kingofthebesl which you never played (or was it an allegory?)... Btw (!) I’ll take the opportunity to ask dear LG readers what they think of analogies. 2010-07-08 erratic I practice fast reading ;-) 2010-07-08 elroy I thought it had been determined that Gregorlo was the winner of this one with his “thou shalt be cool” post over a week ago. It was nice of Waki to provide the playing board and all but Jesus Christ! give it a rest. @Erratic: it is great that you CAN read his posts but why would you bother? I deal often with paranoid schizophrenics and let me assure you it is generally not worth your time to try and make sense of the vast quantities of bullshit that are spewed out. It is just mental masturbation. 2010-07-08 elroy (there, that should get him going) (hee hee hee ha ha ha hee hee) 2010-07-09 FatPhil please don’t diminish mental masturbation. mental masturbation’s great. the gibberings of idiots, however, are quite the opposite. (and forgive me for the lack of caps, this is a new keyboard, i ain’t got the shift keys sorted yet) 2010-07-09 Wakai Yushi Hell hath no fury like an artist inspired…………………… The pope had become very ill and was taken to many doctors, all of whom could not figure out how to cure him. Finally he was brought to an old physician, who stated that he could figure it out. After about an hour’s examination he came out and told the cardinals that he knew what was wrong. He said that the bad news was that it was a rare disorder of the chessycles. He said that the goods news was that all the pope had to do to be cured was to have shift keys sorted yet thruzex. Well, this was not good news to the cardinals, who argued about it at length. Finally they went to the pope with the doctor and explained the situation. After some thought, the pope stated, “I agree, but under four conditions.” The cardinals were amazed and there arose quite an uproar. Over all of the noise there arose a single voice that asked, “And what are the four conditions?” The room stilled. There was a long pause... The pope replied, “First the girl must be blind, so that she cannot see whom she is having chesx.” “Second, she must be deaf, so that she cannot hear with whom she is having sex(and forgive me for the lack of caps.” “Third she must be dumb so that if somehow she figures out with who she is having chex, she can tell no one.” After another long pause a hex voice arose and asked, “And the fourth condition?” “Big tips” replied the Pope. This, it must be said, is not something many regret. Pope Benedict wants to revive the concept of hell? Well dear heart can I inform you that hell here on earth has never gone away for all the innocent children that were abused by the clerical sexual terrorists of the Catholic Church………….. Pope Benedict regrets . . . that hell is not talked about anymore. He said so in a sermon on a visit to Rome’’s Fidene suburb last Sunday.“Jesus came to tell us everyone is wanted in paradise, and that hell, about which little gets said today, exists and is eternal for those who shut their hearts to his love,†he said. So, hell hasn’’t gone away, you know, not even in Puerto Rico this week, when so much else has. Theologians would have it that,like love and marriage, it’’s the same with heaven and hell: you can’’t have one without the other. Though they wouldn’’t put it like that. Important to belief in both is the concept of free will –– if everyone were predestined for heaven, where would the freedom be there? Hell, then, is that state designated for those who willingly, ““with full knowledge and full consentâ€â€, as the old catechism would have it, turn their backs on God. Belief in hell, of late, is not what it used to be. This, it must be said, is not something many regret. 2010-07-09 Wakai Yushi It is unlikely there will be much celebration at the revival initiated by Pope The tract in question, a memo circulated to government departments in anticipation of the Pope’s September visit to Scotland and England, was titled “The Ideal Visit Would See.” It suggested the Pope should launch a line of Papal-branded condoms, bless gay marriages and encourage healthy living by doing somersaults with children. It also referenced the recent church sex abuse scandals by suggesting the Pope should "sack dodgy bishops.“Poe is talking to the crowd about forgiveness and says 'Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone.”, this little old lady totters up under a heavy rock and throws it. Jesus says “Gee mom I hate it when you do that!” So, in the pope’’s view, Jesus is saying love me and you get to join me in Paradise, but if you refuse to love me, you’’re condemned to eternal damnation and eternal punishment. Well that’’s an interesting idea. The first thought that occurs to me is how difficult it is to love someone like that, which means that the whole deal is a trap –– a double bind –– a lose-lose bet. ‘‘Love me or I’’ll tear you to bits slowly.’’ That doesn’’t work, you know. Really –– it doesn’’t; it backfires. I’’ll explain. It’’s the ‘‘I’’ll tear you to bits slowly’’ part –– it puts people off. However well-intentioned they may be, however willing to comply, those six words simply make it impossible. My advice would be to stop with the ‘‘Love me’’ bit –– wait and see what happens. There’’s always plenty of time to come in with the threats. But to include the threats right in the same sentence where you command love –– that’’s bad planning. Is that still not clear? I’’ll explain more carefully. We can’’t love people who promise to torture us for not obeying them. (Yes yes, unless we’’re masochists; never mind that.) We can’’t even admire or respect them; we can’’t even be neutral. No –– we develop an instantaneous low opinion of them; very low indeed. It’’s also odd given that Christians set so much store by free will. What kind of free will is that arrangement? Either love this guy on command, or be tortured forever. There’’s no freedom about it, not in any direction, neither if you say yes nor if you say no; not even if you do nothing but just stare aghast like a rabbit in the headlights. What a very nasty piece of work. The Pope was having a shower. Although he is very strict about the Celibacy rules, he occasionally felt the need to exercise the right wrist, and this was one of these occasions. Just as he reached the Papal Eucharist BP oilmax, he saw a Chess paparazzi photographer capturing the moment of the holy seed flying through the air. “Hold on a minute” said the Pope. “You can't publish that. You'll destroy the reputation of the Catholic Church”. “This picture is my lottery win” said the photographer. “I'll be financially secure for life”. So, the Pope offered to buy the camera from the Chess photographer, and after lots of negotiation, they eventually arrived at a figure of two million dollars. The Pope then dried himself off and headed off with his new camera. He met his Go Prayer housekeeper, who spotted the camera. “That looks like a really good camera” she said “how much did it cost you?” “Two million dollars” replied the Pope. “TWO MILLION DOLLARS!” said the Go Prayer housekeeper, “They must have seen you coming”. 2010-07-09 Carroll ★ “...if somehow she figures out with who she is having chex...”, I warmly recommend the Chex game, from David Smith. You can play it online on http://www.gamerz.net/~pbmserv/chex.html (by email), we need it on LG! 2010-07-10 scottygr8 Ok . Ok , ok ( words from a rap song ....... ) “ those of us who are elect ! ! ! ” ( chuckle , chuckle ) ERRATIC is right – Now George Bush & W. Yushi ( is it pronounced ‘you shi ’) are obviously self- appointed... to whom God talks... hee-haw. Actually, my reply was also about his rationale ( or irrationality ) concerning Peter ( Simon Peter ) as the first pope. W. Y. you are very misinformed. As Jesus said in red : “ all who have ears should hear ” ( this is said many times in scripture ). In Luke 9: 46 – 48 , the apostles were arguing about which of them was ( to be ) the greatest. Jesus, realized the intentions of their hearts, and stated: “... for the one who is least among you all is the greatest.” ( He was referring to Peter & ironically it was Peter who denied his existence ‘three times’, but then wept bitterly afterwards ). Jesus had told him earlier that when you ( Peter ) return go and strengthen your brothers. Now, and more importantly, in Matthew 16: 17- 19, Jesus said: " And so I say to you, you are Peter ( before this I take it he was known as Simon, the son of Jonah ), and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." ( these are Jesus 's quotes , not mine! ) { btw , I have declared that W. Yushi is the POPE of this site – W.Y. Lgolem I } Yes, we have defended the church for centuries & centuries now – Remember that evil people ( whether they are popes, priests , or lay-persons ), they cannot destroy the Church. The same goes for all who still try to condemn the church and all of its followers. ( I always liked the term Jesuits – this word means ‘ for Jesus ’ ). No, I have not learned exclusively from the Jesuits. I think they do everything in their life for Jesus! Or in the name of Jesus. ( Now , I just passed GO & wish to collect my 200 dollars)... I played go once 2010-07-10 scottygr8 Also interesting that Jesus found Simon ( and others ) & planned to make them fishermen of men ! 2010-07-10 scottygr8 forgot my note to the grade1teacher: Thanks for your kind words. Also, a friend of mine is now dealing with the loss of his 22 year old son. Must be very painful to bury your children at a young age. 2010-07-10 Wakai Yushi “What God wants, God gets - God help us all...” - Roger Waters; Amused to Death (1992) 2010-07-10 Foul Ole Ron My gods, now there’s two of them... 2010-07-10 idiot "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want He makes me down to lie Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by. With bright knives He releaseth my soul. He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places. He converteth me to lamb cutlets, For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger. When cometh the day we lowly ones, Through quiet reflection, and great dedication Master the art of Judo, Lo, we shall rise up, And then we’ll make the bugger’s eyes water." -Pink Floyd from “Sheep” off of Animals (1977) 2010-07-10 Wakai Yushi What a very nasty piece of work. The Pope was having a shower. Although he is very strict about the Celibacy rules, he occasionally felt the need to exercise the right wrist, and this was one of these occasions. Just as he reached the Papal Eucharist BP oilmaxxx, he saw a Chess paparazzi photographer capturing the moment of the EUCHARIST.COM flying through the air. “Hold on a minute” said the Pope. “You can't publish that. You'll destroy the reputation of both Paul/John Catholic Church”. “This picture is my lottery win” said the chess photographer. “I'll be financially secure for life”. So, the Pope offered to buy the camera from the Chess photographer, and after lots of negotiation, they eventually arrived at a figure of two million dollars. The Pope then dried himself off and headed off with his new camera. He met his Go Go 19x19 Prayer housekeeper, who spotted the camera. “That looks like a really good camera” she said “how much did it cost you?” “Two million dollars” replied the Pope. “TWO MILLION DOLLARS!” said the Go Prayer housekeeper, “They must have seen you coming”. Holy Crap!!! Who’s turn is it? 2010-07-11 Wakai Yushi What a very nasty piece of work. The Pope was having a shower. Although he is very strict about the Celibacy tornament rules, he occasionally felt the need to exercise the right wrist,by playing chess bliss with his CLOCK and this was one of these PERFECT religion occasions. Just as he reached the Papal Eucharist BP oilgamaxxx, he saw a Chess paparazzi photographer capturing the moment of the EUCHARIST.COM flying through the air. “Hold on a minute” said the Pope. “You can't publish that. You'll destroy the reputation of both Paul/John Catholic Church”. “This picture is my lottery win” said the chess photographer. “I'll be financially secure for life”. So, the Pope offered to buy the camera from the Chess photographer, and after lots of negotiation, they eventually arrived at a figure of two million dollars. The Pope then dried himself off and headed off with his new camera. He met his Go Go 19x19 Prayer housekeeper, who spotted the camera. “That looks like a really good camera” she said “how much did it cost you?” “Two million dollars” replied the Pope. “TWO MILLION DOLLARS!” said the Go Prayer housekeeper, “They must have seen you coming”. Holy Crap!!! Who’s turn is it? 2 seconds left 2010-07-12 scottygr8 Mine ! Commodores Song ( oldie but good ) Fathers , Help your children And don’t let them fall by the side of the road And teach them to love one another That heaven might find a place in their hearts 'Cause Jesus is Love He won’t let you down Jesus is love forever in my heart ! You got to walk on through, Walk on through temptation His love & his wisdom Will be your helping hand JESUS is LOVE 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi Although the monkey might dress in silk, monkey it still is. We know that God is good and we know that everything that God does is good; but the fact is, in this universe created by God, we find evil. We read in the Word of God that “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.” How then could evil ever enter if God is good and if God made everything? It does not fully answer the question by saying, “An enemy hath done this,” for then the natural question arises, “Who made the enemy?”   There are those who hold that there was a necessity of evil’s entering for the developing and perfecting of free moral agents, that unless there is such a contest there would be no developing of strength. If evil is absolutely necessary, then evil must have had an eternal beginning; and evil would be necessary in God, so that He could be His best and His unfallen creatures become their very best. In consequence of this line of reasoning, some of the old divines held the necessity of both good and evil ever existing and contending. Augustine, before he was thoroughly converted, held such a conception and some of it seemed to cling to him afterward. Some of the pagan religions go further and have two gods, a good god and a bad god as their explanation of the problem of good and evil.   There are Christians who reason from the blessings that accrue from the overcoming of evil that evil is a necessity. How low may erring souls descend? I ask my troubled heart. Only as deep as depth of sea, Or to earth’s lowest part.   How high may trusting souls aspire? I asked my spirit free. The boundless steeps of heaven high Are surely meant for thee.   O love of God, how great! how good! That holds the wrong in bounds And offers right the heights of bliss, Where God with glory crowns. “Ye . . . pass over judgment and the love of God” (Luke 11:42). These words, that were spoken of the Pharisees in reference to their lives, may be applied to most of us in reference to our conception of the judgments of God. In fact, the love of God is rarely associated with the judgments of God. Even when judgment is discerned as having a loving purpose in reference to believers, it is always thought of as having a purpose of another kind toward unbelievers, as if God could change His nature, or as if God could have two purposes, one of love and another of hate. The philosophy of God’s judgments is too little understood.   We have said in the Chapter on Punishment, that God does not manufacture any punishment that it is the sinner who makes his own punishment, “for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” This is true of God’s judgments. God does not manufacture, or arbitrarily get up certain judgments for certain cases. Every judgment of God is the fruit and the natural consequence of self-will, rebellion, and sin; and has had its source in the creature separated from God. Our God of Love would not have permitted such self-will with its direful consequences unless He could make it work ultimate good.   There is an erroneous idea that, when one accepts forgiveness of his sins, he thereby escapes all the consequences of his sins. This is by no means the case, as every one may know by experience. The consequences last until there is no longer need of their warning and judging lesson. Some of them continue to the end of this life, and even extend much further. 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi The power of the cross of Christ is too little apprehended. It is true that salvation is spoken of as the initial step of the Christian life; viz., accepting Him as one’s personal Savior and then, by complete surrender, believing for and receiving the fulness of His Spirit; but this is but the bare beginning. Salvation in its fulness is a continuous process. We are perfect when our hearts are entirely set Godward, that is, perfect in love and purpose; but by no means are we perfected. The Apostle Paul many years after His conversion and sanctification wrote in Phil. 3:10: “That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death.” It is one thing to be converted, and another to be fully consecrated; but the work that takes time is this of conformity to His death. More and more, even in his old age, the Apostle Paul longed for this conformity, and welcomed everything that would make him appropriate it. This is what is meant by the power of the cross in a life; for the cross means judgment. Judgment in all that is carnal and selfish, all that is worldly, and all that is demoniacal or Satanic. But “God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, whereby the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world” (Gal. 6:14, margin). (See also Rom. 6:6; Gal. 2:20 and Col. 2:14.) In other words, in Christ the work is wrought out for us; but that does not mean that it does not have to be wrought out in us; and to be wrought out in us may involve pain, suffering, loss, heart-breaks, and anguish. There is no merit in any kind of suffering, and it is not the suffering that saves us; but through it there is preparation to receive more of Christ. Every advance step demands deeper judgment, and every advance step is nothing less nor more than a larger appropriation of Himself. If I desire more grace, I may never take it unless I have the spur of some great need. Christ “learned obedience by the things which He suffered” (Heb. 5:8). “The disciple is not above his Master; but . . . shall be perfected as his Master” (Luke 6:40, margin).   When we understand that we have to be made perfect even “as our Master,” we can clearly see that there is no escape from the process. If we play truant and endeavor to escape any lesson, we will not only be made to learn the lesson from which we thought we could flee, but also we will have the other lesson added, which is, that we can not permanently flee anything that God has for us to be or to do. We know the goal and standard that He has set for mankind. “Till we all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13, margin). This is not only His goal for the elect, who are the first fruits; but also for the whole harvest of mankind, when God becomes “all in all” (1Cor. 15:28). Be not deceived, no one can escape any of the process of the cross of Christ. We may take a longer time to it, but we can not escape it. The seeds that will spring forth into God’s judgments are in one’s own nature, and in one’s own words and deeds. There is no such thing as “chance” in the universe of God. It is the same law for the sinner as for the saint. “God is no respecter of persons.” There is no other way than the way of Christ. It is this path that brings all the blessings for which our hearts yearn. Our spiritual imaginings fall so far short! Our prayers are offered in too great blindness, He will “do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think” (Eph. 3:20).   It is necessary to note that if we are to be made perfect in the same manner as Christ, we need to find the source of our suffering and judgments not alone in ourselves, but in others. There is much vicarious suffering in the world today, fathers and mothers suffer for children; children suffer for parents; wives suffer for husbands and husbands for wives; friends suffer for friends, etc. The Christian worker suffers for his converts; the missionary suffers for the heathen; the pastor for his people; and the people for the pastor. A Christian’s judgments and sufferings, to be like Christ’s, need to be more for others than for himself. What a field is provided in this life, and what fields in the ages to come! God alone knoweth; and has made all things ready for our perfecting. It is but the working out of the principle of the cross in us and through us for all time.   This principle explains why the Apostle glories in the cross of Christ. This makes clear the statement in Rom. 5:3, “We glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience.” Tribulation is not pleasant; it involves suffering. It is a judgment; it is a portion of the cross. Why glory in it? Because when taken aright, it leads us to take more of the very patience of Christ. We do not have any for the new trial, and He gives us His patience. It was through recognizing the necessity and beneficence of judgments that the Apostle again said “Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, than am I strong” (2Cor. 12:9,10). There is no virtue in judgment for judgment’s sake, nor in manufacturing some new cross for ourselves. There will be His cross that meets us and brings its judgments. He will make al of His judgments be in order to grace. Let that suffice.   When we understand that this law is inexorable, that it will keep on following us till we learn its lesson, and all blessing and the beatific vision with the unveiled face is ours, we will gladly welcome the next judgment. This explains the seeming paradox of the Psalmist when he said, “I have hoped in Thy judgments” (Ps. 119:43,120). We will never separate love from God’s judgments (Luke 11:42). We will love the cross and welcome it. “My soul breaketh for the longing that it hath unto Thy judgments at all times” (Ps. 119:20). 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi   Calling the devil is not the same as seeing him come.   While we are writing this, we have brought to our attention the recent decision of a certain criminal who was condemned to death. He was told that he could choose the time of his execution, either on Wednesday or Thursday of the same week. He said, “I will choose Wednesday; since it has to be, I want it to be over with.” Just as soon as sinner and saint get to realize the absolute certainty of having to endure judgments in order to the full conformity to Christ, there will be the sooner yielding, and the learning what God wants us to learn, and the becoming what He wants us to be.   Notice in Jude, verses 14, 15, we have revealed to us the purpose and the outcome of the Lord’s coming and His judgments; viz., “to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all.” The return of judgment is always unto righteousness (Ps. 94:15). The Father suffers judgment to come upon us only to bless us. If we learn our lessons speedily, and judge ourselves, we will escape many judgments (1Cor. 11:31). The redemption of Zion is with judgment (Isa. 1:27). And when God’s judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants learn righteousness (Isa. 26:9). Our Lord will keep on “till He have set judgment in the earth” (Isa. 42:4). Christians will not escape, for “judgment must begin at the house of God” (1Pet. 4:17).   If this principle of divine love in judgment were seen, the words “judge” and “judgment” would never have been translated “damn” and damnation." The usage of language also precludes such a translation. The word “to judge” (krinein) signifies “to judge,” and is so translated over eighty times. In one place, 2Thes. 2:12, it is incorrectly translated “damned.” “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth.” It would make great confusion to use the word “damn” in most of these eighty cases; for instance, in Acts 16:15, in place of “if ye have judged me to be faithful,” it would read, “if ye have damned me to be faithful.” This would make gross nonsense. Only a preconceived theory would cause any one to translate “to judge” by the word “damn.” It is contrary to the normal meaning of the word.   The word “to condemn” (katakrinein) occurs nineteen times in the New Testament; in every instance but two it is translated “condemn.” In these two, Mark 16:16, it reads, “but he that believeth not shall be damned”; and in Rom. 14:23, “he that doubteth is damned if he eat.” It should have the same translation, “condemned,” in every case.   The word “judging” (krisis) denotes the process of judging. In over forty passages this word is rendered “judgment,” in three, it is rendered “damnation.” These places are Matt. 23:33; Mark 3:29; and John 5:29. If we would try to apply this word “damnation” to all the passages where this word occurs, it would be foolish; for instance, it is the same word translated “judgment” in John 5:30. It reads, “As I hear, I judge, and My judging (krisis) is just.” To be consistent, this verse should read, “As I hear, I damn, and My damning is just.” Any one would know that this is not what is meant. All these words are stretched to bolster the false theory of an eternal hell. We have learned in the Chapter on “Time and Eternity” that the word translated “eternity” and “everlasting” can mean no longer than time lasts; they never mean “eternal” or even "everlasting." 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi The monkey knows the tree it climbs.   The word “judgment” (krima) denotes the sentence pronounced, or the result of judging. This word is used thirty times in the New Testament. Fourteen times it is translated “judgment”; Matt.7:2; John 9:39; Acts 24:25; Rom. 2:2; 2:3; 5:16; 11:33, etc., and seven times the word “damnation” is used, Matt. 23:14; Mark 12:40; Luke 20:47; Rom.3:8; 13:2; 1Cor.11:29; and 1Tim. 5:12. The reason the word “damnation” is employed seems to be to so construe the words referring to judgment that they could signify only eternal punishment. This is contrary to the very nature of God and to the correct meaning of the words.   The judgment on Hymenaeus and Alexander was their delivery over to Satan. This meant sickness and death, even instant death. The purpose was loving; viz., “That they may learn not to blaspheme” (1Tim. 1:20).   The case of the wicked man in the church at Corinth (1Cor. 5:5), was “to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh.” Here, through this judgment, Paul desired to have the man’s spirit “saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” Here is salvation, at least reclamation, after death; and judgment is part of the means used. Again, in the passage in 1Pet. 3:18, etc., our Lord, after His death, “went and preached unto the spirits in prison”; who “were disobedient . . . in the days of Noah.” Here is preaching to those who had refused the light and preaching of Noah. Especially notice the reference to judgment in the next Chapter; viz.,1Pet. 4:6. He is speaking of the same preaching, for this Chapter should not be divided from the former one where it is divided. The Apostle Peter continues and says, “For this cause was the Gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” Here was the gospel preached to the dead. Here also is judgment on the dead. Here is the Gospel, with judgment, bringing salvation; for they were changed to “live according to God in the spirit.”   We have known many in this life who never yielded to God till they met with some great bereavement, sorrow or loss. God used the sorrow and judgment to make them willing to accept the Lord Jesus Christ. “Start not at the plow that makes deep furrows in thy soul, God purposeth a crop.”   In the cases given above, we learn that God will use the judgments, punishments and sorrows of the life to come as one of the means to bring souls to Him. The judgments are not the Savior, but they are sanctified to prepare the way for Him. Salvation in this age, or any age, is only through the Christ.  The devil knows more from being old than from being the devil. 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today. The Bible is very clear in its teaching; and those who acknowledge its authority are saved from many a snare and find all the light that is needed for our time in God’s Word.   The seeking to communicate with the dead, or the seeking help from those who do communicate with the dead, is expressly forbidden in the Word of God. Deut. 18:10-12, “There shall not be found among you . . . a consulter with familiar spirits, . . or a necromancer (one who deals with the dead). For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord.” The Word then adds that the Canaanitish nations practised the same things; for in this text, Deut. 18:12, the word is added, “And because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.” Spiritists assert that such practises were forbidden in Israel because of the character of the spirits with which they would commune. They say now that the case is different. We fail to find any such distinction in the Word of God. But Old and New Testaments unite in warning us against Spiritism.   Notice the result of the preaching of the Apostle Paul in Ephesus as recorded in Acts 19:18,19. There were many there who practised the spiritistic and occult arts. So mighty was the preaching of the Apostle that they confest their sin, brought their books on these subjects and burned them publicly. The amount of books burned cost fifty thousand pieces of silver. Such occultism is contrary to the Word of God, and when the Word of God prevails such things are forsaken (Acts 19:19,20).   The slave girl who brought her master great gain through her fortune-telling, had an evil spirit, a spirit of Python, and the Apostle Paul cast it out of her (Acts 16:16-18).   It may be interesting to note that the book of Colossians was written to meet the more philosophic form of Spiritism, in which greater light was promised through the invocation of angels: a practise in certain ancient and modern forms of Spiritism and Theosophy. In the book of Colossians, Christ is set forth in all His pre-eminence as the Head of angels, of all creation, and as the Creator of all things (Col. 1:16). Why do we need to go to the lower, when we have the Highest? In Christ are “hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Col. 2:3). The Apostle adds, “Let no man rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he hath seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind” (Col. 2:18, R. V.).   Isa. 8:19,20 (R. V.) is plain and one would think that it was written in our day: “And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto the wizards, that chirp and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? On behalf of the living should they seek unto the dead? To the law and the testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, surely there is no morning for them.”   There is no case in the whole Bible where attempted communication with the dead, even with the good dead, is spoken of with approval.   Saul’s supposed communication with Samuel is often spoken of as a genuine communication with the dead. Here is an appropriate case, for even Spiritists say that we can not believe every spirit that may communicate with us, but it is a different matter when we communicate with good spirits. Saul was seeking to communicate with a good spirit; viz., that of the prophet Samuel. The Word of God is very plain in declaring that Saul did exceedingly wrong. 1Chron. 10:13,14, “So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the Word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord: therefore He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.”   Let us look at a few points in the narrative of Saul’s visit to the woman of Endor who had a familiar spirit (1Sam. 28:7-25). The woman asked Saul, “Whom shall I bring up unto thee! And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel . . .” etc.   Notice this was not a materialization for Saul, for only the woman saw the one she called “Samuel.”   There was nothing the woman said that might not have been said even by one of ordinary intelligence who was living in Israel at that time.   Saul would be suspected by any one because of his great height, “from his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people” (1Sam. 9:2).   Likewise, it would not take much wit to describe Samuel as an old man.   It is certainly out of character for Samuel to speak as he is supposed to speak: “Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?” (1Sam. 28:15). For this same Samuel when alive had said to the people and to this same Saul: “God forbid that I should sin against the Lord in ceasing to pray for you.”   There are those among Christians who hold that the witch of Endor did not have power to bring Samuel back, but that God surprized her by sending the spirit of the real Samuel. If Samuel was sent back by God to bring God’s message to Saul, it is rather strange language for Samuel to use. a tree that is born twisted never grows straight 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi God makes them and they look for each other   On the other hand, those who think that the woman had the power to bring up Samuel are believing a strange thing, that a woman with a familiar spirit, or a medium, would have the power to call up at her behest any spirit of the blessed that she chose. This, to us, is unthinkable, especially when we read in the Scripture that our Lord has “the keys of Hades and of death” (Rev. 1:18). The custody of our loved ones had better be left to His loving care.   The fact that the spirit or the woman uttered any truth is not strange. The spirit feigned to be Samuel and had to fulfil that role.   It did not take very much beyond an ordinary intelligence to say that the Philistines were to conquer Israel, or that Saul and his sons were to be slain, because the Philistines were in great force and already dominated Israel.   As far as the Bible narrative is concerned, the woman’s prophecy does not seem to have been true that Saul was to be slain on the morrow, for the next Chapter tells of other events taking place for which several days would have to be allowed.   Also the prophecy concerning the death of Saul’s sons is only in part true. It seems to mean all of his sons; viz., the cutting off of his whole house; but this was not the case. Some of them were cut off with him, but we find one of his sons living a long time after this (2Sam. 2:8,10).   This supposed calling up of Samuel, when properly investigated, is revealed as an abomination to God and one of the chief causes of Saul’s losing his kingdom.   This is the only case in the whole Bible that seems to favor in the least the seeking of one with a familiar spirit; and, when fully examined, it is found to be strongly against all such things.   Better be one-eyed than quite blind. There is a further word that needs to be said, and that is, the cultivation of mediumship or its seeming natural possession is to be most emphatically deplored. It requires the abject laying aside of one’s personality, which is our highest and most God-like characteristic, and the development of a passivity which renders us little more than “a thing,” an “it.” Such a yielding sins not only against God, our Creator; but also against ourselves. It throws open the door to any kind of control or impression and deprives us of free moral agency, so that we become mere tools. The sincerity of some of those who practise these things only renders Spiritism more dangerous. Our God does not ask us to render a passive obedience, even to Himself. He desires that in our yieldedness we should still hold the power of choice. He desires our intelligent cooperation, else there will be no progress or true development on our part. His course of training to fit us for heavenly things is exactly the opposite to that which is necessary to become mediumistic. He develops strength of character and will; passivity degenerates into weakness. The tearing down of the vitality of the body is often one of the means to increase mediumship. Fasting and other methods to accomplish this are used. It is true that our physical bodies are a hindrance at times; but God has made them to be a blessing, and as a wall to block the too easy approach of evil spirits. When the passivity is perfect, the medium becomes a slave, harassed like one who has a private telephone line with ten or more on the line. He is interrupted on all sides and called at all hours.   There is no question about the supernatural element in Spiritism and Theosophy. It is the same power that was back of the old idol worship and is back of all the new idol worship. The Scripture warns us in 1Tim. 4:1, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.”   Most of those who claim such power make it a means of gain. Mediums who have most influenced our scientific men, occasionally, when the conditions are not favorable and the spirits were not working, have been known to deceptively push the thing through themselves. Their deception is not as much an “immoral” thing for them under the circumstances as it is an “unmoral” thing. They have gone so far into passivity that they are not fully responsible.   All this displeases God. He wants to be everything to you, to train you to trust Him. This blocks Him. He can not bestow as great things upon you as He desires. You have not the faith: you follow by the path of sight in place of faith. For a present gratification you sell your opportunity. Do not seek guidance from any one but Himself. Demons will feign to be your loved ones. Our Lord came down from heaven to give us true comfort. He says, “In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.” He is the only One who can prove it to you. He conquered death and the grave, and conquered it for you and your loved ones. They are safe in His care. He has the keys. His name is Love.   When David lost his infant son and was comforted of God, he witnessed against Spiritism. You recall the story. He fasted and prayed for God to spare his child, but no answer came, for it was not best. When David arose from the earth he washed and drest and went to the house of the Lord, and worshipped: “then he came to his own house, and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat” (2Sam. 12:20). The servants could not understand why he so changed. It was because he had bowed to the will of God, and a new purpose had come into his heart, viz., to so live that he could “go” and be reunited to his son. These are his exact words: “But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me” (2Sam. 12:23). David knew he could not bring his son back. He did not want to be deceived by any spirit claiming to be his son. He did not go to any medium with a familiar spirit, but with new courage and increased faith he said, "I shall go to him." 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi The devil knows more from being old than from being the devil.   Let us gladly accept the faith of the Apostle: “For I am persuaded that neither death . . . shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” "Christ says, ‘I am eternal.’ Now that must mean not merely that He has existed and shall exist for ever, but also that in the forevers of the past and the future He is eternally Christ; that the special nature in which He relates Himself to us as Savior never had a beginning and shall never have an end. Now what is that special nature? Christ! The word includes to our thought such a Divinity as involves the human element. Christ is the divinely human and the humanly divine . . . There are two words: God and man. One describes pure deity, the other pure humanity. Christ is a word not identical with either, but including both . . . To the good “understander”, few words are needed.   "Stop here one minute and see how this exalts the human nature that we wear. In the midst of the eternity of God there bursts forth into being the new life of man. What shall we say of it? Is it just a creature of the moment which witnesses its birth? Is it just another of the world’s ephemera, with a little longer space of life than some of its time brethren? Is it a new type of being made to be born and die? What if this other truth be true? What if the type of this life I live were part and parcel of the everlasting Godhead? What if it be the peculiar glory of one of the persons of that Godhead that He has worn forever, bound with His perfect deity, the perfect archetype and pattern of this humanity of mine? The creation of our Lord’s humanity in eternity implies that the whole creation was originally eternal, for it was all created in Him (Col. 1:16). If it were otherwise, Christ would not be complete, the eternal creation would not be complete and God’s glory in eternity would not be complete.‘He / She who is silent, consents’ There is not the slightest doubt that both the Bible and present-day studies of the races of mankind prove that there were and are races on the earth who have not descended from Adam.* Hence comes the answer to the questions: “Where did Cain get his wife?” “Of whom was Cain afraid when he departed from his own people?” “Where did he get help to build a city?”   *Theodore Roosevelt in The National Geographic Magazine, Feb. 1916; and H. F. Osborn, Men of the Old Stone Age (Charles Scribner’s Sons, N.Y.). “The relation of Christ to mankind is, however, only part of a larger question--the relation of Christ to the created universe. The Church has been content to acknowledge that Christ created all things, and that in some sense He upholds all things. It has never felt any keen and practical interest in the nature of His permanent relation to the universe. In the dread of Pantheism, and in its eagerness to maintain the freedom and personality of the living God, it has rather shrunk from conceiving any other kind of relation between the Creator and the creation than that which exists between the builder of a house and the house he has built. But there are many passages in the New Testament which are inconsistent with such a conception as this.” Don’t speak of the noose in the hanged man’s house. This truth of our Lord’s eternal humanity explains the origin and dignity of man. If the humanity of our Lord came down from above, then all humanity has thus descended, not, however, for the same reason and in the same manner. The angels and men that fell came down because of their sin. They lost the light and life of Christ; they died to His presence and awakened to the lower world of sense and sin.   In this time when the hypothesis of evolution is dominating most of our thinking, we need to learn that altho it uses many facts, in itself it contains but little truth. If it were all true as developed, it would contain no more than a half truth; for there never is any evolution unless there is first an equal involution. Besides this, the whole truth of man’s origin as revealed in God’s Word is entirely neglected. Man in his original was created in Christ’s humanity, on a higher and more glorious plane than the angels. There has been a terrible degeneration, and there is need of a recreating regeneration. Nature itself, as we know it, has fallen from what it was originally; and all its groans and travail are a working toward what it was. Of itself it will not reach the goal; the life and light of Christ must be born in it again. 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi Don’t wait for tomorrow to do something you can do today. In the hymn of praise to love in 1Cor. 13, we have a description of our God in His nature and character. He does not ask us to be anything, or to do anything that He is not and does not do Himself.   "Charity suffers long and is kind; Charity envieth not; Charity vaunteth not itself, Is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, Seeketh not her own, Is not provoked, Thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but Rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, Believeth all things, Hopeth all things, Endureth all things. Charity never faileth" (1Cor. 13:4-8). Sometimes, people tend to get stuck with ideas and principles and make way for them through rain and storm. Welcome the cross and its death and hold fast to its whole process. There is no other way than the way of Christ. There is no other process than this to bring man, not only to where he was originally, but also to the place God intended him to be. There is no escape for any one. There is no such thing as “chance.” Every refusal makes the way longer and harder. There is no escape, no lesson can be skipt. Man has sinned and slipt thousands and millions of times; he will have to retrace every false step. The path of progress is just the reverse of the path of the fall. It is death in order to life, and life in order to deeper deaths, ever to higher planes. The path does not stop when the starting-place has been reached, but moves on and on into “all the fulness of God.”   God willeth not the death of a sinner. If one sinner die eternally, God is defeated. God can not be defeated. “God willeth all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth” (1Tim. 2:4, literal). But it is not in the feeble, germinal, and initial sense in which we understand the word “saved” to mean that God willeth all men to be saved; but God wills all to come also to the full knowledge of the truth, and that implies the whole process of Christ for every man. In speaking of the elect, who are the first ones to ripen in this harvest, “a kind of first-fruits,” God in the Word says, “Till we all come to the unity of the faith, and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Eph. 4:l3). At the end of the ages all men will have reached that goal, for He wills for them the same full knowledge. It is only as the truth becomes a part of yourselves that you really know; and when you have the fulness of the truth of Christ, then you have reached the stature of the fulness of Christ. This is a result unthinkable apart from God’s own Word (Eph. 4:13). “But faithful is He that calleth you, who also will do it” (1Thes. 5:24). For God is the only One who can take us through.   “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” “Thanks be unto God, which always leadeth us in triumph in Christ.” Eternity has come, the goal is won, God is “all in all.” In view of this wondrous law of life out of death and God’s tremendous plan for us, let us not say that this life is all and when it is gone, that all is gone. Neither let us say that death ends all. Read this parable which we found, said to be written by one James Buckham. It is called   A ROBIN’S EGG   "Only think of it--love and song, The passionate joy of the summer long Matins and vespers, Ah! bow sweet, A nest to be in the village street, A redbreast flashing in happy flight, Life’s full ecstasy and delight Thrilling God’s minstrel through and through, All of them packed in this egg of blue!   "Would you believe it, holding dumb Lime and pigment twixt finger and thumb ? Would you think there was love within Walls so brittle and cold and thin? Such a song as you heard last night, Thrilling the grove in the sunset light? Out of the casket in which we dwell What may issue? Can you foretell?   "Can you say when you find outspread Bits of eggshell, we are dead? Can you think if this shell be crusht All that is in it is cold and hushed? Look once more at this hit of blue,-- Has it no message of hope for you?" 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi ‘To a dead king, a king crowned.’ We know that Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, and that the great work of Satan is sin, and that Christ came “to make an end of sins” (Dan. 9:24). “The blood of Christ cleanses from all sin.” “He is the propitiation not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1John 2:2). There is no such thing as eternal sin. The phrase so translated means sin for an age or for the ages. Sin will be finally and utterly put away at the end of the ages by the sacrifice of Christ (Heb. 9:26). All sin can only be put away by the conquest of Satan, the beginner and tempter to sin.   We quote the Rev. Thomas Allin:   “To this in fact it comes, that the popular view, while admitting God's power and goodness to be infinite, yet teaches that evil shall ultimately prevail--a position obviously untenable and indeed absurd. 'Order and right can not but prevail finally in a universe under His government'--Butler's Analogy. For argue as you please, refine, explain away, it continues still an insuperable difficulty, on the popular view, or any mere modification of it, that the Devil is victor, and triumphs over God and goodness. It is nothing at all to the purpose to allege, either that those who perish finally have chosen evil of their own will, or that all evil beings are shut up in chains and torment: it is the very permanence of evil in any shape: its continued presence--no matter from what cause--that constitutes the triumph of the Evil One. 'To suppose,' says Canon Westcott, 'that evil once introduced into the world is forever, appears to be at variance with the essential conception of God as revealed to us'--Hist. Faith. I repeat that if evil be as strong as good, as enduring as God Himself, there is no escape from the conclusion that you proclaim in so teaching the triumph of the Evil One. You are proclaiming not the Catholic faith, but a dualism. You blot from the faith of Christendom its fundamental article, 'I believe in one God the Father Almighty.' What are all heresies, all errors, that have stained the Church of God, compared with this supreme heresy, this dualism, which seats evil on the throne of the universe, a power enduring as God Himself? The torments, physical and mental, of the popular Hell, awful as they are, recede into almost nothing as compared with the far more awful spectacle of God vanquished, of God trying to save but failing, and watching His children as they slowly sink beneath the endless sway of Satan; of God's Son returning, not in triumph, but in defeat; of the Cross shattered, prostrate, paralyzed.”*   *Universalism Asserted, by the Rev. Thomas Allin (Elliott Stock, London). This writer is strong in patristic quotation. This leads us to ask the question, Has the death of Christ on the cross accomplished anything for angels and especially anything for fallen angels or demons? (Demons are spirits not as great as angels, and probably disembodied.) Everything on earth, and also in heaven has been reconciled by His death on the cross (Col. 1:20). We can understand that it was through the fall of the angels that the heavens became unclean, and we have the Scripture also that He charged His angels with folly (Job. 4:18). Through the precious blood, all in the heavens as well as in the earth are to be reconciled.   Let us see what was included in the death of Christ. Man was in Christ for “the Head of every man is Christ” (1Cor. 11:3).   Angels were also in Him, for He “is the Head of all principalities and power” (Col. 2:10). The angels and all creations were in Him. “For in Him were all things created that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through Him, and for Him” (Col. 1:16, literal). These words, “thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers,” refer to the different ranks of angels.   Col. 1:19 tells us that all fulness dwells in Him. We know that besides all the fulness of God, all creation was in Him, so that when He died all creation died in Him as a seed, and when He arose all creation rose in Him. In reference to His resurrection and glorification He is called the first-born of all creation (Col. 1:15), and as a result of His death and resurrection, the whole creation is to be made anew: even those who never fell will receive a higher glory, and all those who fell, being in the seed, will be in the resultant harvest. Then shall be fulfilled that word, Phil. 2:10,11 (literal): “In the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”   The Mosaic worship and ritual was patterned after a heavenly worship. We see the heavenly worship very clearly in the Apocalypse where angelic priests ministering in the earthly tabernacle was typically the blood of slain animals; but Christ’s blood is necessary to purify the heavens. Heb. 9:23,24. “It was therefore necessary that things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, . . . but into heaven itself.” This text teaches that the blood of Christ purifies the heavens. Some think that because Christ did not come as an angel (Heb. 2:16), that, therefore, there is no redemption for angels; it is necessary to remember that Christ “was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death” (Heb. 2:9). Had He not gone as low as any man or angel could fall, He would not reach all; but passing through the highest He became the lowest that He might include all from he lowest to the highest. 'If God doesn’t give children to you, the devil will give you nephews' 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi There is no misfortune that doesn’t come with good. Sin would not be effaced if all the angelic sons of God were not saved, for He came to make an end of sin.   The victory of Christ would not be complete with all those lost who were once His. If Satan could say to Christ, “I hold in my power one man, angel or demon that you can not get,” the victory would not be complete. “Every knee” would not bow and “every tongue” confess. The greatest victory will be when Satan himself bows the knee and confesses “that Jesus is the Christ to the glory of God the Father.” And remember this has to be done “in the name,” that is, in the nature of Christ. Satan and his angels were once in Christ (Col. 1:16). He will be in Christ again when he makes his great submission and confession and the cleansing blood makes him clean. There is power in the precious blood for us and for all (lJohn l:7; lJohn 2:2).   Again, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” That means that every one who was in Adam died in his sin, and every one who was in Christ lives through His death and resurrection. But as Satan and all creation were in Christ (Col. 1:16); all shall, therefore, be made alive in Him.   There is nothing that so shocks the sensibilities of some people as to hint at the possibility of Satan and the evil angels being saved. This is not saying that every one in God’s universe is not to reap what he sows, that every one will not receive punishment, not only adequate for the guilt of sin, but also sufficient to burn the lesson in so deeply that it can never be effaced. Satan’s power has always been limited. God is overruling it now for good to them that love Him. Satan’s sins are, in part, sins of ignorance. Our Lord can say to Satan and his angels, “But as for you, ye thought evil against Me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive” (Gen. 50:20). Not everything that shines is gold. And in Encheirid. ad Laurent, c. 29, refers to   “The very many in his day, who tho not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments.”   He does not declare them unorthodox. Augustine, in replying to the Manichees, says:   "Who is so blind as not to see that evil is that which is opposed to the nature of a thing? And by this Principle is your heresy refuted; for evil as opposed to the nature is not a nature. But you say, that evil is a certain nature and substance.   That what is opposed to nature struggles against it and would destroy it. So that which exists tends to make non-existence. For nature is only what is understood, after its kind, to be something . . . If then you will consider the matter, evil consists in this very thing; namely, in a defection from being and a tendency to non-being."   “If this is so,” says an able writer, “what becomes of Augustine's doctrine of never-ending punishment, which surely is never-ending existence in evil?”   Athanasius, Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, and others argue against evil having absolute reality, it could not therefore continue in eternity.   In collecting the above testimonies we have given only a representative portion of the great leaders of the Church of the first four hundred years. During this whole period it seems clear that over half of the authoritative teachers in the Church held the ultimate salvation of all, and in no case was this view regarded as heretical. When we remember that many who taught this view spoke the language of the New Testament and represented the first promulgators of the Gospel, the evidence is strengthened. In later years some of the objectors could not even read the Bible in the original language.   We need to remember also that on account of the doctrine of Reserve which was held by so many of the Church Fathers (see Chapter on Doctrine of Reserve), some who are quoted as holding to the doctrine of never-ending torment have other passages which teach quite the contrary. Many held the doctrine of the ultimate salvation of all for themselves and for the other doctors of divinity; but felt that it was not safe for the multitude, and therefore taught them an endless perdition.   When we remember the cruelty and militarism of the Roman Empire, and also the pagan teaching that was permitted to enter on this great subject because it was found in the pagan and barbarian religions of many who profest allegiance to Christianity, many of these we fear, judging from their actions, had not received a truly Christian spirit, and we are not surprized that “endless torment” was so largely incorporated in The Western Church. Besides this, it took the dark ages and medieval ignorance to render this doctrine almost universal. It is time to return to the Bible and to the teaching of the early Church, which is not only Biblical but is sane and is also consistent with a God of love and the sacrifice of His Son who was a “propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1John 2:2). 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi Better be one-eyed than quite blind. What is the case with the doctrine of eternal torment? We find that a majority of its advocates, Christian preachers and teachers with illumined consciences, say again and again, “I wish this were not true.”   Sir Robert Anderson thus presents the problem to himself in his Human Destiny:   "According to the most careful estimate, the population of the world exceeds one thousand four hundred millions. Not one-third of these are Christians even in name; and of this small minority how few there are whose lives give proof that they are traveling heavenward! And what is the destiny of all the rest? Any estimate of their number must be inaccurate and fanciful; and accuracy, if attainable, would be practically useless. As a matter of arithmetic it is easy to deal with millions as with tens; but when we come to realize that every unit is a human being, with a little world of joys and sorows all his own, and an unbounded capacity for happiness or misery, the mind is utterly paralyzed by the effort to realize the problem.   “And these fourteen hundred millions are but a single wave of the great tide of human life that breaks, generation after generation, upon the shore of the unknown world. What future then awaits these untold myriads of millions of mankind? Most of us have been trained in the belief that their portion is an existence of endless, hopeless torment. But few there are, surely, who have carried this belief to middle-age unchallenged. Sometimes it is the vastness of the numbers whose fate is involved that startles us into skepticism. Sometimes it is the memory of friends now gone, who lived and died impenitent. As we think of an eternity in which they 'shall be tormented day and night forever and ever', the mind grows weary and the heart grows sick, and we turn to ask ourselves, Is not God infinite in love? Is not the great Atonement infinite in value? Is it credible then that such a future is to be the sequel to a brief and sorely tempted life of sin? Is it credible that for all eternity--that eternity in which the triumph of the Cross shall be complete, and God shall be 'all in all'--there shall still remain an underworld of seething sin and misery and horror?”   And again:   “No candid person will dispute that the revelation of Divine love creates a presumption against the possibility of eternal punishment. On the other hand, it is still more dishonest to deny--and in fact it is admitted--that certain passages of Scripture support the doctrine. The fairest mode, therefore, in which this inquiry can possibly be entered on is to dismiss for the moment both the presumption against, and the texts in favor of, the 'orthodox' belief, and to consider without any bias the passages which are used to prove universal reconciliation. If these should be found to teach that doctrine unequivocally, the question is at an end, for in a seeming conflict of texts the presumption against endless misery must turn the scale. But more than this: even should these Scriptures seem of doubtful meaning, we shall be prepared to lean toward the broader interpretation, provided only that such a rendering will neither disturb foundation truths, nor land us in difficulties akin to those we seek escape from.” Good fruit never comes from a bad tree. It is evident to a thoughtful mind that the doctrine of eternal torment which they proclaim, they do not fully believe, altho they force themselves to think they do. No man really believes anything to which his conscience does not say “Yes.” All words and intellectual declarations of faith and interpretations of Scripture are insufficient when conscience witnesses to the contrary. The center of human personality, the sine qua non of personality, is our spirit, which is not a spirit without conscience. Conscience is not only an essential part of personality, but also its witness is absolutely necessary in order to our having true religion. Conscience, therefore, with its intuitions and instincts, has to be satisfied, or there is no peace nor joy, nor satisfaction in God. Without conscience there could be no hell of remorse, and without conscience there could be no heaven of bliss. Conscience is God’s judgment throne within us, where every day is a judgment day. God’s own acquittals and approvals are heard in conscience, and conscience cleansed by the precious blood and obeyed is the foundation of the heart’s inner-chamber of love and peace, where there is abiding fellowship with the living God.   Mark you, it is not only the untold and unending sufferings of the creature against which conscience witnesses, but the witness is against God’s very character. In the light of an illumined conscience it is impossible to conceive of a God of love making a creation that He foresaw would result in eternal torments to millions and millions of His creatures. Every man’s conscience cries out and says, “This does not commend itself to me in the sight of God, such a God is not our God.” Praise God! Such a conception has not come from God, but from an erroneous interpretation of the Scriptures and paganized ideas of punishment.   Hear the words of Rev. Thomas Allin*, who has given this subject careful consideration:   'The popular creed presents us with a Being who fluctuates between tenderness and wrath: One who has ever-changing plans, and a will that is divided, and baffled. For half His creatures, His love is in fact momentary and His vengeance eternal. For the other half, His pity is eternal and His wrath transient. This God is not even Lord in His own house; for the worst and feeblest of His creatures can defeat His most cherished plan; can paralyze the Cross of Christ. In such a God I can see no trace of Him who is almighty and unchanging, whose property is to always have mercy; whose love, tho it must take the form of vengeance against sin, never ceases to pursue the sinners for ‘love never faileth’; never to all eternity. Against the popular caricature of God, this . . . is a special protest--that caricature which represents eternal love as turning to hate as soon as the sinner dies; which vainly talks of an Eternal Father, whose judgments mean salvation in one world and change to damnation in the next; of eternal love, whose fire purifies and refines in time and then beyond the grave turns to mere (purposeless) torture. All this is not alone morally repulsive, but a plain contradiction in terms."   *Reference in Chapter on Witness of the Early Church Fathers. 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi Raise crows and they will peck your eyes out.   The popular conception or rather misconception of God above referred to does not commend itself to “every man's conscience in the sight of God.”   From the same writer we quote again:   "A further point there is, so vital that I dare not omit it, tho to touch it may involve the charge of presumption. I feel unable to decide how far Bishop Butler designed to teach that “probation” is an adequate description of our relationship to God. Yet it seems that practically his great name is (largely) the authority with those who teach in fact, if not in words, that God is primarily the Judge, or the Inspector, of His creatures. Against this idea, which seems to me to be working on every side untold mischief, I must once more protest. Hence comes the fatal blot of placing Sin at the center of the moral system and not Love. Hence the removal of ‘Our Father’ while the Inspector or Accountant takes His place. And this system is believed to be the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Hence vain idle wranglings over a first and second probation, on the part of those who forget, that, if God is our Father, the central fact that dominates all else in our moral relationship to Him, is, if He is Father."   His Father-love yearns for the salvation of His prodigal children, and He will not be satisfied till they are fully saved and trained and grown fully into His image.   Thomas Erskine of Linlathen remarks in The Purpose of God:   “The essential characteristic of a Father's love is that it is inextinguishable . . . If I am here simply on trial, if I regard God as one who is keeping a debtor and creditor account with me, I may in word call him 'Father', and in word ascribe love to Him, but I can not really regard Him as Father.”   The former writer proceeds:   “Hence the painful evasions; the manifold sophistry; the halting logic that (honestly) turns the Bible upside down; i.e., teaching that all men drawn to Christ means half mankind drawn to the devil; all things reconciled through Christ means the final perdition of half the universe. The notion, which is in fact that of the popular creed, i.e., that God is in the Bible detailing the story of His own defeat, is telling how sin has proved too strong for Him; this notion is worse than absurd. Assuredly the Bible is not the story of sin deepening into eternal ruin--of creation darkened forever by a ghastly hell--of God's own Son worsted in His utmost effort. It is from the opening to the close the story of grace stronger than sin--of life victorious over every form of death--of God triumphing over evil.”   It is only by the manifestation of the truth as it really is that we commend “ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.” Sometimes, people tend to get stuck with ideas and principles and make way for them through rain and storm. 2010-07-15 Wakai Yushi When the river makes noise, (is because) it’s carrying water. The question may arise in the heart of a Christian worker, "Is it not all right to sacrifice a little frankness and truth in order to usefulness?"Cheap things turn out to be expensive   The Word of God tells us to “Buy the truth, and sell it not.” All truth that we really have, has cost its possessor something, and sometimes it is gained only at a great price. You give them a hand and they take your elbow. God bids us buy it. It is true it is “without money and without price,” and yet it costs dearly; but it is always worth more than it costs. Cats always fall in their paws. Truth to become really ours has to be held more strongly than a mere opinion or belief; beliefs have to be burned into convictions and convictions changed into life.   Eyes that don’t see heart that doesn’t feel. There is always the temptation to compromise; and when any truth is compromised or denied, it is apt to become weaker and fainter to our consciousness. God’s Word says, “sell it not,” for all truth is a part of Him who is the Incarnate Truth, and in selling it, to that degree, we are selling Him.   God always desires us to be tactful in the presentation of truth, but He never wants us to sacrifice it, nor to practise diplomatic falsehoods to promote His cause. There are times when one may be called upon to sacrifice greatly for some truth; but if done unto God in the spirit of joy and faith, it always yields its ''hundredfold," and that kind of truthfulness is always one of the secrets of power: we might say, a rare secret of power.   It is contrary to heavenly wisdom to prefer a present profit to a future good. In fact, he who is not looking for profit at all, but only at what will please God--that man has already the greatest profit in a more intimate fellowship with God. And he who has the most intimate fellowship with God, will have the life of greatest usefulness, whether he or the world knows it. Any other principle of life and action always sells its birthright for a mess of pottage. Cheap things turn out to be expensive “Them that honor Me, I will honor,” and what truth so vindicates God’s character and honor as this of God’s wondrous plan and its complete success? Again we say, ''Buy the truth, and sell it not." “I should reason in this way, 'Is it so? Can it be that the human soul is worth so much? Can it be that human souls are so dear to the heart of the Father? Can it be that that great atonement can cover all guilt, and that that mighty Spirit contains all souls?' If this be true--if it be true that all souls are to be redeemed, then I go in for the missionary life, not only for this aeon, but for aeons of aeons until the Christ of whom we have heard so much these days has put all His enemies under His feet, and presented the kingdom to God the Father.”   * Griffith John, the Story of Fifty Years in China, by R. Wardlaw Thompson, page 380 (A. C. Armstrong & Son, New York). Not everything that shines is gold. ...believes that the upper veins of truth have been fairly well worked in the past and their yield has been exceedingly rich, but many questions still remain unanswered and he hails with delight the workmen of God who have gone deeper. He takes no honor to himself--since others have shown the way--if he digs a little and finds another flow of precious truth...one nail drives out another If there were no truth in the religious systems which some despise, they would die. The fact of their life and power can not be attributed alone to the forces of darkness; there is another factor. Usually there is some truth that has been neglected, some truth twisted or warped, else there would not be any need met by the systems that are so largely false. Often the reason that lies back of the concealment is lack of courage, and fear of the consequences. In times of great persecution it certainly would be easy to follow some devious path of Christian casuistry in order to escape torture, imprisonment, suffering, or death. Even in our time, altho much of the crude and outward persecution has passed, that which remains may be none the less cruel and naturally provocative of fear. As one has aptly said: There is no misfortune that doesn’t come with good. ...   “There are other forms of dogmatic bondage besides fear of death. The halter and the stake have indeed been banished . . . But the more hidden and insidious forms of persecution--suspicion, prejudice, calumny have by no means lost their power; and they are doing their enslaving work (as truly and effectually today) within the limits of the Church as ever in its history.”   Many a preacher has to wear a muzzle on certain questions or lose his church and his living. Even if he cares little for his own welfare, that of his wife and children holds him strongly. It takes courage from God and supernatural grace to step out trusting God alone, but He will honor every one who honors Him. The rights of conscience and of private judgment are admitted in theory by nearly all, but not in practise.   Christianity centers in the person and work of the God-man, our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the touchstone and power of all truth. Any seeming truth that does not glorify Him is counterfeit, or only partly true. To us there seems to be a grave need for those who hold the great fundamentals concerning the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ--the full Inspiration and Authority of Holy Scripture; the necessity of Regeneration; the doctrine of Rewards and of Punishments--to assemble all the light from God’s Word that removes the difficulties from the doctrine of eternal torment as usually held, and in this way make a glorious harmony. ‘Never say I will not drink from this water’ 'Water you are not going to drink, let it run' 2010-07-23 scottygr8 Tennis racket in hand : ( tis my turn .... ) { you should see how I swing an ax or a Sword for God, Christ , & br>the holy spirit } I tire of reading all of this garbage of words ! I respond mainly to the last paragraph: There are now many, many Christian doctrines in our world... Fortunately, the LOVE of God conquers all. I only get pissed when I come across people who choose to attack leaders of my faith, regardless of the reason. Some are valid, some are a bunch of hog-wash. I feel ( me , the individual here .... or a Soldier as my protestant friend calls me ) that satan has lead many people to form all of these groups or counter-cultures & he did not start in the past 100 years. His work started many thousands of years ago. All of this crap seeks to divide. It nevers seeks to unite. This is why today there are hundreds of different christian doctrines today, as well as Muslims, Hindus, Jews, buddhists,etc. And most probably claim that their way is the one way – the only way. ( maybe now you can spout on abt. this ) Fortunately , the light always overcomes the darkness ! God is love God is light. { my racket just swung – now , I will chop some wood } 2010-07-23 scottygr8 John Paul II said ( in a photo ) that we must all look in the mirror! 2010-07-25 Wakai Yushi Does the Pope John Paul II, see the reflection of SATAN in the mirror? John Paul II said ( in a photo ) that we must all look in the mirror! Maybe it means he went the other way. - Nikita, London, 16/10/2007 02:57 Once again the catholic church is spinning instead of taking action.It is deplorable that when the facts are brought out the church uses Satan as the reason. the reason for the backlash is that these priests committed a crime and got away with it. I dont want to hear that they will be judged by God, that does not help the victims. The obligation is to report the crime not sweep it under the rug. The criminals were known yet the church and the church agency headed by Ratzinger knew about the crime and did nothing. When the priest in Milwaukee asked for leincy he was granted it by Ratzinger. The victims had to live with knowing that he church they thought would protect them adandoned them. The church leaderships despicable behavior and enabling of these pedophiles allowed their crimes to continue unabated. This is not a satanic left wing george soros plot. This is a large institution that is protecting their own at the expense of the flock. The pope and his minions must come clean and tell teh truth. Anything short of the truth will just prolong the moral dilema the church currently faces. The Pope is not infallible but he is held to a higher standard, it is about time he lived up to it. You are actually going to blame “Satan” for this outrage? Why not accept responsibility for the ruined lives of trusting young naive children instead? Don’t these perverted priests have “free will”? When I was a child, I remember it was a ‘sin’ to say anything bad about a priest. So all these kids were afraid to tell anyone because they were concerned about sinning themselves! Twisted! I consider all those who knew this was taking place as guilty as the perpetrators. If you want to blame an invisible entity for the crimes of human beings, then play the ‘victims’ of Satan instead of being responsible.... maybe we should open all the prisons and free the murderers and rapists, because it was the ‘devil’ who made them do it. Get real, folks... Catholics/Christians: One cannot blame satan for your shortcomings, nor blame him for what the priests and the Vatican has been doing for years without punishmnet. It is very much like you to blame him(satan) rather than to accept responsibility for your own actions. How sad. Satan is empowered by those who CHOOSE to do wrong rather than what is right, and when you need an escape goat, you blame satan. When you stand before God the creator, and he asks you why you did what you did, try giving him the excuse, “the devil made me do it” all the while knowing that you made your choice to pick satan over God in your action(s). 2010-07-25 Wakai Yushi St. Augustine (in De Civitate Dei, Ch. VII, 35) says that they were used by the witches of Thessaly who wrote their oracles on them in human blood. Varron claims that they are of Persian origin, the Magi having used them for a method of divination called Catoptromancy. Spartianus says that Didius Julianus used them to know the result of the battle which Tullius Crispinius fought with Septirnus Severus, his rival for the Throne. The persons who, in Rome, read these mirrors were called Specularii. In the East these instruments were called Stellar Mirrors. Pica della Mirandola had faith in them, provided they were made under a favorable constellation, and that they should only be consulted when one felt comfortably warm, for the cold harms the lucidity of their oracle. Reinaud speaks of them in his Description of the Blacas Cabinet. He adds that the operators perfume them, fast for seven days before using them, and recite sacramental prayers at the moment of consulting them. The Chinese and the Hindus made theirs of metal, concave or convex. Muratori tells us of a Bishop of Verona who was put to death because under his pillow a magic mirror was found bearing on the reverse the word flore which means flower, and proves collaboration with the devil, since, according to St. Cyprian, Satan sometimes appeared in the shape of a flower. A mirror of this kind was also found in the house of Calas de Rienzi. Catherine de Medici had one. The shape of these mirrors was, as we have said, very varied. Some bore the name of their inventor (Cagliostro, Swedenborg, etc.) More recently they have been used to fix the eye of clairvoyants or mediums so as to put them into a state of hypnosis. It’s about TIME the Pope and Catholic church overall is being FORCED to answer for their millions of rapes against children and the incessant cover-ups. I’ve read that the Vatican is “the” most corrupt organization in the world. Millions of artifacts and ancient books that should be available to the public is hidden beneath the Vatican. WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO HIDE? That is, besides the rituals they hold at the Vatican and the rampant peodophelia? "Many think Pope John Paul II is a saint, but he didn’t do anything about sex abuse of children by priests in the Roman Catholic church and this is why we think he belongs in hell." 2010-07-25 Wakai Yushi For 1000 Years A Frame Mirror speaks a thousand words For 1000 Years of Inquisition Womens & s children Sex Abuses. This fiery figure is being hailed as Pope John Paul II making an appearance beyond the grave. The image, said by believers to show the Holy Father with his right hand raised in blessing, was spotted during a ceremony in Poland to mark the second anniversary of his death. Father Cielecki said he was convinced the picture showed the former pontiff. “You can see the image of a person in the flames and I think it is the servant of God, Pope John Paul II,” he said. The pictures were being broadcast continuously on Italian TV and also posted on religious websites, some of which crashed as thousands logged on to see for themselves the eerie figure formed by the flames. The bonfire was lit during a service at Beskid Zywiecki, close to John Paul’s birthplace at Katowice, southern Poland, on April 2 – the second anniversary of his death. Hundreds had attended the ceremony. Gregorz Lukasik, the Polish man who took the photographs, said: "It was only afterwards when I got home and looked at the pictures that I realised I had something. "I showed them to my brother and sister and they, like me, were convinced the flames had formed the image of Pope John Paul II. “I was so happy with the picture that I showed it to our local bishop who said that Pope John Paul had made many pilgrimages during his life and he was still making them in death.” Maybe it means he went the other way. - Nikita, London, 16/10/2007 02:57 America, do not send your hundreds of millions of dollars to Rome, do not spend on JPII souvenirs that will only go to the Vatican Bank that already has billions and it is now owned and operated by the Opus Dei. Who will pocket the $1 Billion profit — the Opus Dei. That is why they are in a hurry to canonize John Paul II so they can partner him with Josemaria Escriba and lionize both as the infallible saints of God! The only power John Paul II has is whatever Benedict and Opus Dei concoct and brainwash Catholics with – his books, writings and speeches, rosaries, relics, medals and statues. Compare the CRIMES and their VICTIMS in America Victims – Attackers – Responsible Leader Pearl Harbor – 3,000 victims – 170 planes – Admiral Yamamoto WTC & 9/11 attacks – 5,000 victims – 19 Muslims – Osama bin Laden USA Priest Pedophilia – 12,000 victims – 5,148 priests – John Paul II & Josemaria Escriba OD The Vatican has billions that came from the Nazi coffers as these Jewish Holocaust survivors are demanding from the Vatican Bank in a lawsuit based in San Francisco- http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/home.html “The plaintiffs seek an accounting and restitution of the Nazi Croatian Treasury that according to the US State Department was illicitly transferred to the Vatican Bank...after the end of the war”. http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/links.html I find it hard to accept that these articles and comments find the “Church” and “the Pope” are under “attack”. What about the innocence of all those children? The true evil attack was on these children, they are the victims here. All of you remember that the “media” are just reporting, finally, the stories of the victims, which were for so long silenced, and therefor allowed to continue with abuse of even more children. If you knew, personally, one adult who had been abused as a child, maybe you would sense the size and scope of this true evil. I don’t know whether it is Satan that is behind the reporting, but I do believe that Satan was in on the abuse of children done by those who reported to serve Christ. I believe that Pope Benedict should allow the light of truth to shine regardless of what happened so that future generations can look back and see he tried to do the right things. Otherwise, all Christians lose credibility, Catholic or Protestant. Leave it to the Catholic Church to blame the Devil for it’s troubles. Perhaps, the Church should have been looking inward all these years, doing exorcisms on the priests who liked young boys and those who tolerated such actions. As far as the Pope goes, in his heart he knows if he was right or wrong, did or did not assist in cover ups. One day will have to stand accountable for his his actions, before the “Big Boss.” I don’t blame all Catholics for the abuses of the clergy. Their sickness doesn’t change the message. But enough already with the histrionics. Stop blaming the papers printing stories about the abuses and fix the issues in your own house first. This comes off like the church feels the biggest problem with this story is that it’s being reported when in fact the biggest problem is that it happened. Maybe it means he went the other way. - Nikita, London, 16/10/2007 02:57 2010-07-30 Wakai Yushi Complaining about a problem one can fix themselves is misdirected effort of the highhest order........................infamous If all things were possible... nothing would be certain. --Uncle Martin’s signature I found two paradoxes within this statement, can you find them ? 1. How can nothing be certain when you know everything is possible? 2. If everything were possible, then knowing the uncertain would be possible. Meaning everything would be certain. Yet at the same time everything could be uncertain ... Hey, everything’s possible 2010-08-03 scottygr8 Interesting ... (your 07/25 ) comparisons of Pearl Harbor deaths, WTC deaths – Murders , and USA Priest Pedophiles. Just watched ‘ Pearl Harbor ’ the movie & this sets off a flame as one of my relatives ‘ gave his life ’ for his country. Probably why I still have this hatred today of anything & all Japanese! Read about the ‘Bataan Death March’ or see the victims/ survivors on the history channel! Many were just skin & bones – speaking of the survivors! Yes my uncle was one who made the ‘Supreme Sacrifice’ for our country’s sake. Many , many feel a lot is warped in the U.S.A. today – priests & preachers abusing boys and children , millions & millions of Abortions allowed in the past 50 years – this is Murder not family planning, and now we are all supposed to be ‘politically correct’ and ‘respect’ homosexuals 'cause they do not have any control over what they are / awe – let’s all sing Kum-bah-yah together / ( we all know which forces caused all of these atrocities ! ) There are many many embarrassing things one can find in this country. Is it any wonder that there are so many fires out West, hurricanes & storms to the south and east, tornadoes, etc. I’d best stop before I mention the ‘groups’ who wish to remove God from our schools / etc. / 2010-08-03 scottygr8 Lest i forget: I still remem. a coworker laughing at pictures of people about to burn to death or jump off of the World Trade Center to avoid the flames. What a choice this was! Willie Nelson says it best when he ( & Toby Keith) sing about having ‘public hangings’ to put people in the ground where they belong ... 2010-08-05 Gregorlo it’s not only that God must be removed from school. Believers in god should be removed from this world. i’m not talking about killing them (it would not be a problem, though). But maybe not allowing them to rise their children and having no more “life destroyers” in maybe a couple of generations. 2010-08-05 Macbi N.B. Please don’t actually start a new thread, one is quite enough. 2010-08-05 Gregorlo we are supposed to respect those “lambs” or “believers” cause they do not have any control on what they believe. and now those crazy people think that “god lifted a finger and created Adam” must be a theory biologist must teach. Plainly punishable. 2010-08-05 Foul Ole Ron Amen, brother! (and I love fudge, too...) 2010-08-05 elroy Yes, fudge is good. For those of you who are new to this thread like Unhappy Kid here is a synapses: Someone started a thread a long time ago about the old pope dying. Then the thread died as it should have. Many, many days later the thread was resurrected by someone with a theological axe to grind. Many chimed in, some finding it all humorous, some with their own theological axe to grind and still others just confused about what this had to do with games on LG. Then everyone dropped off paying attention because all of the posts were largely by two people both of whom showed signs of paranoid schizophrenia, a need to write excessive amounts of bullshit complete with trash culture and youtube footnotes to their scholarly works, and a sad sense of reality that made them both seem to need to do their theological masturbation in public complete with enraged invective. It was sad really and even they were starting to pay less attention and the thread was sliding down the list until eleven hours ago when Unhappy Kid and a few more of us breathed new life into it. It’s kind of like LOST only without the eye-candy. (That last line was kind of my way of paying homage to earlier trash culture references.) 2010-08-05 Wakai Yushi Didn’t anyone watch last nite on PBS the 2 parter on the Inquisition of the Church??? O.G. At the dawn of the second millennium Europe was slowly emerging from the blackness and ignorance of the Dark Ages. There were no nations and the people were loyal only to their immediate community and to God. The keeper of God’s word was the Catholic Church, the only religion in all of Christendom. The supreme religious leader, the Pope in Rome, crowned the Kings who became rulers of the Holy Roman Empire stretching from Sicily north to Poland were largely by two people both of whom showed signs of paranoid schizophrenia. The Emperor was the ruler of the temporal world while the Pope and his Bishops reigned supreme over the Spiritual world. If anyone had any doubts about what we believe, that would have put them to rest!!! The catholic church was unbelievable. CONVERT OR DIE!!! For hundreds of years, hundreds, the inquisitors hunted, hounded and murdered millions!!!! Everyone talks about Hitler, 911, pharmaceutical inquisition, HIV con inquisitions, [This vaccine issue has been totally spun out of Reality, already], this documentary "pulls back the curtain on the multibillion dollar pharmaceutical industry to expose the insidious ways that illness is used, manipulated, and in some instances created, for capital gain. Yes, fudge is good. Focusing on the industry’s marketing practices, media scholars and health professionals help viewers understand the ways in which direct-to-consumer (DTC) pharmaceutical advertising glamorizes and normalizes the use of prescription medication, and works in tandem with promotion to doctors."A shocking documentary that exposes HIV/AIDS as a deceptive and deadly scam . . . well what about Pope Innocent I or so many others BP Oil Scandals? Is Vatican’s profit margin really worth it... a sad sense of reality? I know it was Gods Will for us to go through that, but it should be enough for “thinking” people to NEVER want to be catholic or any of the protestant daughters. AND JUST IN CASE... That was just the first 2 parts of 4. Next week the next two portions will air at the same time. All four parts follow the almost 700 year reign of the inquisition. As a historian I find the whole of this description of the early middle ages highly disturbing. Whilst it is not a period that can count as one of the high points of human civilization it was certainly absolutely nothing like that which is suggested by the sound bite presented above. I’ve read a few Catholic web sites and news articles that are already trying to down play the info presented, especially the numbers that were murdered. They are counting on viewers accepting their beliefs as truth and still others just confused about what this had to do with games on LG.. Unfortunately for them, if you bother looking into the making of the documentary you will find out that the people that made it were given direct access to the actual Vatican documents regarding these events. In the Vatican alone there are more than 30 miles of shelving (yes miles) of documents regarding the inquisition. And many cities have their own files in their respective churches. All of this has only been made available since 1998 by Pope John Paul II. The Chess Queen originated from Spain (chess culture references.) 2010-08-05 Wakai Yushi Here’s a little tid bit to ponder also . . . When you are watching the documentary and there are characters speaking in the docum-drama portions, those words are actual quotes from the Vatican files. They kept unbelievable records of these events. I hope that many more people will tune in. If you missed the first two parts, it won’t stop you from understanding the 3rd and 4th. So please tune in. A Little More for those interested: Episodes: 1. “Root Out the Heretics” 1300’s – May 9 2. “The Tears of Spain” 1400’s – May 9 3. “The War on Ideas” 1500’s – May 16 4. “The End of the Inquisition” 1800’s – May 16 Links: PBS – Secret Files of the Inquisition - With trailers http://www.pbs.org/inquisition/?campaign=pbshomefeatures_3_secretfilesoftheinquisition_2007-05-10 Note: Don’t miss any of the links. Especially the pictures on the right approx half way down the page. The pictures under the words “Accused and Inquisitors” & “Cathars and Conversos” are each link to more details. Well worth checking out. Inquisition Productions, Inc. - Secret Files of the Inquisition is a production of Inquisition Productions, Inc. - With trailers http://www.inquisitionproductions.com Vatican’s Office of the Inquisition, founded in 1233, operated until 1908 when it took on its current name, The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. 2010-08-05 Wakai Yushi By the 12th and 13th century, cracks began appearing in this ordered world. Emperors no longer submitted to being crowned by the Pope and across Europe Kings demanded the right to select their own Bishops. But for the Pope the most terrifying threat came from upstart Christian sects who challenged church doctrine and the absolute power of the Roman Pope. To preserve the purity of the faith and the unquestioned authority of the Pope, the Church began to crack down on all dissenting with a new weapon: the Inquisition. For over half a millennium a system of mass terror reigned. Thousands were subject to secret courts, torture and punishment. PART ONE – Root Out Heretics http://documentaries4u.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html The complete series was on youtube.com a few days ago. But it was removed as it should have been. There are ways to get hold of the files on the 'Net, but none of them are legal. Look into Bit torrents if you want to go that route. But . . . You can be sure that somebody will put them on YouTube.com again. With that in mind, you should be ready to download them as soon as you can since they will vanish in a few days. The easiest way for a newcomer to accomplish that is with something like http://www.youtubex.com. I suggest that you try it a few times before the files show up again. (Just to get used to the steps). Now the resulting files will be “FLV” files. These require a different viewer than most users have. You can get one for free at http://www.martijndevisser.com/blog/article/flv-player-updated. There are others to be had, but this is a start. FOUND! Parts of the Secrets of the Inquisition Online Use the following link to see 3 of the 4 parts to "Secrets of the Those Jewish scholars carried their chessboard to various European Countries after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain during the period of the Inquisition in 1492. Jewish scholars translated the rules of the game from Arabic to Castilian language, and afterwards Christian monks translated it from Castilian to Latin. "He is master over his intermediary causes. For a similar reason it is unlikely that the weak chess player should beat the strong one. One cannot speak of good or bad fortune in a game of chess, as in war between two princes.â€â€ (Judah Halevi – HA KUZARI, chapt. ‘The Realm of Man’) Jews and chess had an earlier history. After the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans in 70AD, a wave of Jewish refugees flocked to Babylonia. Determined not to loose their way of life they saw to their historic duty to record their past, their culture and laws. Inquisition." The files can be viewed or downloaded. And no membership is required. Nor special software for viewing. (They are AVI’s) http://www.guba.com/general/search?query=inquisition&set=-1&x=12&y=7 Please knows that only parts 1, 2, & 4 are currently available, but each part is a show unto itself. The viewer does not need the previous part. Each part is one hour in length. Hope this is of some help, 2010-08-05 Hjallti @Gregorio, I actually have more trouble with people that actually would claim that believing in anything not scientifally^provabale are stupid and say they believe in nothing. (I don’t speak about the masses in the Western world that don’t care about the question, but about those like you???- that say believing in anything is poor judgement and non-intelligent). I don’t understand that those people if thruthful don’t kill themselfs, so either they are stupid themselfs or hypocrytes. Why? Because they simply believe themselfs, but don’t see it, or don’t want to see it. 2010-08-05 Dvd Avins Hjallti, I think you are mixing up several shades of meaning of ‘believe’. 2010-08-05 erratic @elroy: Great abstract! Just one point I don’t quite understand: Why is it such a taboo to talk about religion? For an atheist like me it is just another subject. I can spend hours talking about the origin of life, the universe, etc. Why is it such a taboo mentioning that humans (at least primitive ones) have a need to self-falsify their belief framework including (an anti-scientific, anti-common sense and anti-verifiable evidence) belief in “an immortal soul”. For me, it is not a big problem to write about it, but people with “faith” must feel really uneasy and that may be the reason why they don’t like to talk/think about religion. Since I am surely older than most of this list, I really appreciate the reactions I could read here (not including .., of course). It confirms that younger people are healthier than people my age on this issue. 2010-08-05 Dvd Avins Religion and politics are considered inappropriate topics under many circumstances because people feel obliged to defend their passionate beliefs, often without the skill and/or thought necessary to maintain good terms with those who disagree. Since even before I got here (uid 2284) religion has been deemed a suitable topic of conversation, but politics has generally not. 2010-08-05 elroy Wow, he IS unhappy and illiterate to boot. See, there is the enraged invective I was talking about in my last post. Now we should get three or four very long incoherent posts from Waki which nobody but scottygr8 will read for some reason. Scottygr8 will fire off some more inane, hateful sounding posts and maybe one or two more folks will chime in with something funny or confused. It’s all getting kind of predictable guys. I wish you would stop because the entertainment factor is dropping. 2010-08-06 elroy That’s the spirit! very entertaining. hee hee hee hee heeeee ha ha hee 2010-08-06 David Milne ★ hmm.... about 12 or 14 years old. 2010-08-06 Aganju I knew this was the troll-thread all the time, but now it’s become obvious! 2010-08-06 Aganju Actually, I was hoping this really obnoxious topic would finally drift out of sight. But no luck. Maybe there should be a flag ‘I want this thread gone’, and if more than 50% of the readers flag it, it gets deleted!? 2010-08-06 Dvd Avins @Aganju I hope I’m not invoking the Observer Effect, but I think the thread serves as a useful containment vessel. 2010-08-06 quartastella Therapist: “I thought you didn't believe in God.” George Costanza: "I do for the bad things!" 2010-08-06 ypercube No, no, no, no deleting please. 2010-08-06 Gregorlo We had a big loss with “the most important topic EVER”. Not again, please :-) 2010-08-06 Hjallti @Dvd: Do I? or do you? Of course I do regret that in name of (some strange view of) God there has been a done a lot of harm.... likewise this has been done in name of atheism, in name of Socialism, in name of marxism, in name of patriotism, in of Enlightment, ... 2010-08-06 Macbi http://xkcd.com/774/ 2010-08-08 Foul Ole Ron Hey! I missed this thread! 2010-08-08 Methylphenidate I’m sad that I didn’t miss it. 2010-08-08 Wakai Yushi Our dear Pope Jan Pawel II is dying :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( 2010-08-08 Peewhile are you joking? he’s not dying anymore! what are you thinking about? 2010-08-11 scottygr8 Still in agreement with Shinnosuke ! But for the sake of Entertainment ( eh Elroy ): " If I were the KING of the world I tell you what I’d do. I 'd throw away the cars & the bars & the Wars And make sweet love to you. ( I’m ) Singing JOY TO THe WORLD All the boys & girls Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea ( well 'cept for BP coated ones) Joy to you and me." 2010-08-11 scottygr8 First Lines : Jeremiah Was a bullfrog ( dah da duh ), Was a good friend of mine .... but he always made some mighty fine wine. Singing Joy to the World... 2010-08-11 scottygr8 .... oh yes .... ( I never understood a single word he said ) but I helped him drink his wine, Note – Insert this where there are dots ! 2010-08-21 Wakai Yushi This Verbal tennis game is boring as hell. 2010-09-26 Andres Villasante Abuse Victims Group Blasts Pope’s Remarks Thursday, 16 Sep 2010 10:18 AM Victims of child abuse by Catholic priests in Italy have gathered in Verona, and called for such abuse to be made a crime against humanity. Dozens of victims and their families went to the public meeting, the first of its kind in Italy. Organiser Salvatore Damolo, a former victim and an ex-priest, said the aim was to give victims a platform to talk about their experiences. Continue reading the main story Related stories Vatican attacks media over abuse World Catholic sex abuse scandals Pope calls for abuse ‘reparation’ He appealed for help in seeking justice for those who have been abused. Italian bishops say around 100 cases of abuse have been investigated by Church authorities in the past decade. But organisers of the conference say the true number of victims is much higher. International protest Justice for the abused is hard to come by because Italy has a statute of limitations of 10 years, meaning that by the time victims came forward, it was often too late, Mr Damolo said. Continue reading the main story ““Start Quote By the time a victim arrives at the awareness of having been a victim, legal intervention is not possibleâ€â€ End Quote Salvatore Damolo Spokesman for Italian abuse victims “Here there is no hope. By the time a victim arrives at the awareness of having been a victim, legal intervention is not possible,” he told the Associated Press news agency. This was the first conference of its kind in Italy, says the BBC’s Duncan Kennedy, and it took place in the location of one of Italy’s most serious cases of alleged abuse by Catholic clergy. Sixty-seven deaf-mute children at Verona’s Catholic Antonio Provolo institute were allegedly abused by priests and lay staff between the 1950s and 1980s, according to testimony obtained by AP in 2009. Next month they will hold a demonstration outside the Vatican, to which US abuse victims have also been invited, the Italian news agency Ansa reports. “This will be an international protest and we will go in front of the Vatican to denounce once again these numerous [paedophiles] that shocked young victims and weren't known until now,” said Marco Lodo Rizzini, a spokesman for the alleged Antonio Provolo institute victims. Pope Benedict XVI has this year made several expressions of regret to victims of child abuse within the Catholic Church in different countries. During the papal trip to the UK earlier this month, he expressed his “deep sorrow” for the “unspeakable crimes”. Article Font Size WASHINGTON –– A network of child abuse victims lashed out at the pope Thursday, decrying his “disingenuous” remarks on the Catholic Church’s lack of vigilance on the issue of pedophile priests. On his plane shortly before landing in Britain for a historic visit, Pope Benedict XVI expressed his “great sadness” over revelations of widespread abuse of children by Catholic priests, saying that “authorities in the church have not been vigilant enough” in combating the problem. But the US-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) said the pope’s comments were “hurtful, not helpful,” and that any Vatican action on ridding the church of abusive priests or turning them over to law enforcement has been “virtually insignificant.” “It's disingenuous to say church officials have been slow and insufficiently vigilant in dealing with clergy sex crimes and cover-ups,” SNAP’s southwestern regional director Joelle Casteix said in a statement. “On the contrary, they've been prompt and vigilant, but in concealing, not preventing, these horrors.” 2010-09-26 Andres Villasante The Catholic Church has been shaken by revelations that priests and Catholic teachers in Ireland, the United States and other countries had abused children in their care. Casteix said papal claims of insufficient vigilance “imply that all's well and that just a tad more attentiveness and promptness is needed. That's patently false.” Bishops worldwide, she added, "continue to deliberately choose secrecy and deception over safety and honesty in child sex cases. That’s the sad, simple truth. “How many times will we let the world's most powerful religious figure just talk about child sex crimes and cover-ups and not insist that he do something about child sex crimes and cover-ups?” Benedict is on the first ever state visit to Britain by a pope since English king Henry VIII broke with the Catholic Church in Rome in 1534 and founded the Church of England. The British bishops' conference said last week that the pope could meet with victims of pedophile priests during his visit. 2010-09-26 Gregorlo Hey, Wakai, it’s been a long time since you last logged as Andrew-Villasante! 2010-10-04 Wakai Yushi I always thought going to Heaven was a good thing... 2010-10-16 Wakai Yushi Studies have shown the latter to be definitely false (see here). How many children must be born with HIV, suffer and die and how many children must be raised without mothers so that the Catholic church realizes that it is wrong? BTW, these are all rhetorical questions.The fact that you showed absolutely no empirical evidence in your claim that condoms increase promiscuity and abstinence programs work is not out of character. A bit of advice. Until the Survivor game is over don’t post here unless answering an immunity challenge. Up until now you haven’t been reminding people why you are on that list and it has worked in your favor. Your naivet is not adorable and entertaining like Rooke chess’s. Silence is your best strategy. Abstinence only approaches are legacies of patriarchal systems that patronise people, teach them that they are unworthy to judge for themselves how best to act, they deprive them of the choice to act according to their own standards and reason. They are in effect saying “you have no ability to reason your way through an act, therefore I shall give you a commandment which, if you fail to obey it, means you are even less worthy”. It infantilises people. I’ve never liked the Pope, even if the Pope smokes Dope. Both the Pope and Facilis display a deep arrogance and complete ignorance of African culture, morality, and religion. In many areas of Africa people practice ancestor worship They believe the worst thing that can happen is to die without leaving living descendants. Thus, to them, having children with multiple partners is not only acceptable and moral, but highly desirable. For the Pope and Facilis to judge them, or anyone, based on their own supernatural beliefs is arrogant and insensitive. People will have sex. People have different opinions about sexual morality based on deeply held beliefs. Denying the effectiveness of condoms and insisting that other cultures adopt your own morality is insensitive, immoral, and ineffective. 2010-10-16 Wakai Yushi Amen, Rev! The more stories like this I see, the more convinced I become that at the root of a significant fraction of the evil in the world is this notion that there’s an all-powerful god who hates earthly, physical pleasure in all its forms. Nutbags like this pope and all his fellow monotheists who preach the sinfulness of all physical pleasure are gradually turning me into something like a classical hedonist. I have often jokingly called Cheryl Crow a great philosopher, quoting “If it makes you happy/It can't be that bad”... but more and more I think that’s less and less of a joke: With an appropriately mature, nuanced definition of “happy,” and coupled with the moral reciprocity of something like the Little Golden Rule, that little bit of pop-song doggerel turns into a fairly reasonable organizing principle for a Good Life™™. If you’re secular, that is; if you’re religious, it becomes more like “if it makes you happy, it'll probably get you tortured for all eternity; better check God's (very short) list of approved happiness to be sure.” [sigh] 2010-10-16 Andres Villasante $orry PZ, you are wrong and the pope is correct. The $olution doe$ lie in a $piritual and human awakening. If you would care to help the church of the Co$mic Teapot, you will see the truth of my worm$. Ju$t $end lot$ of money to: The Church of the Co$mic Teapot. The Teapot. $omewhere between Mar$ and Jupiter. Ju$t behind that a$teroid that look$ like a cro$$ between George W Bu$h and a potato. /$nark Honestly, the pope needs to resuscitate$ s and get out and do a real days work for once in his eternal life. PZ. I get some sort of crazy satisfaction knowing that some pope 20-100 years from now will have to step up and apologize for the monstrous misinformation that his predecessors contributed towards today. I hope I’ll be alive when it happens so I can let everyone know that I totally called it. 2011-05-02 Wakai Yushi http://exposemolesters.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html 2012-02-19 scottygr8 Hmmm, interesting commentary from Cheryl Crow. Was always partial to that guy ( is it Nelson ) who wrote or sang: " but it’s all right now , learned my lesson well, see you can’t please everyone , so you got to please yourself. " ( think the song is called ‘ Garden Party’ & i joke about things being philosophical too ). Who was it who said : “ The pen is mightier than the sword” ? 2012-02-20 scottygr8 Thibodaux was driving to the French Quarter and was searching for ( but not finding ) a parking place near his favorite tavern in New Orleans. Looking skyward, he prayed: ' Lord, if you grant me a parking place this moment I will give up gambling and never drink a drop of whiskey again.' Suddenly, the skies parted and despite a logjam of cars a parking spot miraculously appeared. Thibodaux then said: ‘ Nevah mind Lord, I found one.’ 2012-03-01 Wakai Yushi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd_FZVVHDP8&feature=related http://serjudio.com/dnoam/rap197.htm http://serjudio.com/exclusivo/respuestas-a-preguntas/%c2%bfquien-es-jesus-de-nazaret http://serjudio.com/dnoam/jehova.htm http://serjudio.com/dnoam/rap123.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=7PQj-NHp83A 2012-03-01 Wakai Yushi http://www.harrington-sites.com/Jewish.htm 2012-03-02 Wakai Yushi http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=447&func=select&id=2 2012-03-02 Wakai Yushi http://fulvida.com/id-noajica/identidad/preguntas-a-los-cristianos 2012-03-03 Wakai Yushi Perhaps, Ignoring may be an unreasonable approach, but it’s fairly efficient;- 2012-03-07 scottygr8 Still agree with Shinnosuke 2012-03-07 ondik the fuck is going on here 2012-03-08 Wakai Yushi Laziness is not always being too slow to do things. A lazy person may sometimes act too quickly because he’s too lazy to stop and think about what he is doing! 2012-03-27 scottygr8 Yes , this ignorance is indescribable. Long ago, a teacher of mine explained : “ you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. ” Some day L O V E will conquer all / Very powerful Stuff 2012-03-27 Hjallti That is exactly what European president Van Rompuy said about the British veto against a decent monetarian moral in Europe. 2012-03-27 Wakai Yushi With due respect, may I suggest something else may be at work? DRAW? Wow. Religion is becoming more irrelevant by the day...Do you want a DrawW? Could the pope be impeached? that the only common factor I think he should put himself on the cross and be crucified. ...just like the church did centuries ago- if he dies, he is guilty. if he resurrects, then he is innocent..But save the tree! For the cross. 's not just catholic priests. Although the numbers of molestations seem to be considerably higher among the celibate crowd, many pastors of protestant churches are guilty of the same thing. I saw on a blog recently – a man in his 60’s had grown up in a protestant christian home & community. His grampa warned him never to be alone with a preacher. Imagine that! I personally know pastors with, shall we say, deviant leanings. And this is aside from all the scandals we hear in the news. I think the pope, priests, and all pastors should be criminally charged when this happens. And the fact that the pope cannot be impeached would be great if the pope was, well, perfect, but he’s a human being in a very sick institution. No accountability. If you’’re trying to educate them at the same moment that they’’re throwing people in the fire, I think it might be too late. You’’ve crossed that event horizon. It doesn’t matter whether saying that Catholicism and science are incompatible will drive people away from one or the other. All that matters if whether it’s true: if it’s true, you say it, no matter the consequences, and if not, don’t. 2012-03-27 christian freeling He said “Love will conquer all”??? Ah, I read in wiki that he’s actually a couple of months younger than me. An old hippie, it figures ;-) 2012-03-27 Wakai Yushi We think that was funny... 2012-03-29 Wakai Yushi I think the Catholic Church in a decline like the depression. They don’t deserve the credit they claim to be representative of God. They don’t have exclusivity to God. Indeed the Vatican has behaved brutally throughout history. Furthermore, as a nation, the Vatican, own lots of property in America, all without paying taxes. TAX them. It is just another of the false communist religions of the world that has had power and abused it. What is wrong with having one’s own faith and one’s own culture? Leave the people alone. When is it time to stop killing in the name of “God”? How many have died due to religious fanatics efforts to impose their God, their culture upon others? How can religion be a mission of Peace when torture, persecution and execution are the tools of the trade? 2012-03-29 Wakai Yushi This shows how out-of-touch-with-reality “Holy Father” Benedict XVI is because he would rather meet with a rare Cuban crocodile who flew all the way from Cuba to meet him within his palace...but he refuses to let inside the Vatican his suppossedly Catholic children “Love will conquer all” ..., who walked all the way across Italy to meet him. What Benedict XVI has in common with the rare Cuban crocodile are his crocodile tears for hundreds of thousands of victims of the B16 Army – Benedict XVI Pedophile Priests Army – named aptly after him as Cardinal Ratzinger who together with John Paul II covered-up and condoned pedophile priests and Cardinals and Bishops who transferred them from one parish to another to satiate their bestial pedophilic lust. Read our latest articles in our new blog Pope crimes and Vatican Evils http://popecrimes.blogspot.com/ 2012-04-01 Aganju I’ll shoot the next person that revives this threat... 2012-04-04 Wakai Yushi Historically christianity as a religion was developed by cunning [probably agnostic jewish}meglomaniacs,to manipulate the poor uneducated masses who were desperate for any vehicle of hope or distraction from their tormented existance,and this supernatural and threatening dogma was enough for them to donate any material value whatsoever including their children,to the monster-the church.All through the next 1500 years The Church has systematically tortured,raped,murdered,and brainwashed millions of people into allegiance for only profit nothing else,not only Catholicism{although as we are all very well aware of their abhorent efforts to conceal their common paedophile practises makes them the worst}lets face it ,if we take the most farfetched hypothetical situation ,where a homo sapien is confronted by a quizical Deity on a filtering mission and the human’s qualifications were that he paid money on a weekly basis to some drunken Irish sex fiend,or that he had donated thousands of dollars to an obese American faith healer I dont think heaven would want them.Have you ever came across any church of any description that has not asked you for money-no thats because{and i don’t mean the flock here,because they are victims, due to years indoctrination}the silent pope types of all denomination are as pius as a wolverine in a henhut.The time for mankind to wake up has come thanks to genuine global aid and philanthropy we can make a difference if we all contribute to the living not the intangible.The baddest pope in history has to be John Paul II,who is currently undergoing beatification{being made a saint}he saw at first hand thousands of african children suffering from Aids, he witnessed how parents dying of Aids were still actively passing on the disease without in depth knowledge of their actions,yet he as pope banned the teaching of contraception and warned of the demonic practise of safe sex ,so condemning to death,to date,about two million African Roman Catholics.If you feel you need god or that god and heaven comforts you ,fine but-stew god would never sanction money grabbing church leaders of any kind. Soon the enlightened masses will overcome this nonsense. Pope worship is a sin of all sins! I am not the least bit surprised about the sex scandals and the devil worship for this Church of Rome is exactly what it is and a “doctrine of devils and Satan†that the Bible speaks about. God continues to expose this church of man and ceasar worship. “come out of her my children and choose not to partake of her sins for her sins have reached the heights of heavenâ€. Roman Catholics have butchered and murdering the true saints through out history “dont partake of drinking the wine of her fornication.†Rome killed the apostles we learn that from the Bible and the Roman government dissapeared from sight and turned into a religion. Simply put Rome never left. God continues to expose this church of Satan and sexual immorality and death for it has a history of it. Let us not forget history this church is a monster and sin surrounds it will be destroyed by the hand of God. “the truth will be proclaimed from the rooftops†and the mighty God is still here and always has and is coming. God seeks a relatioship with us but man seems to want to worship in his own way rather than Gods way. 2012-04-04 Wakai Yushi I am beginning to realize that the Roman Catholic faith and all christian denominations are a sham, that it is a false religion fashioned around showy but powerless rituals and spectacular but worthless ceremonies rooted in pre-Christian religions. For having read through the whole Bible I now see clearly that the pre-Christian religious practices described in the Old Testament, which God commanded the Hebrews to avoid, are mostly the current religious practices of the Roman Catholic Church with all christian denominations. Why haven’t Roman Catholics noticed what God says? NO IDOLS! NO IMAGES! This means: AT ALL TIMES! No “RELIGIOUS” usage of statues or likenesses of anything! NONE, WHATSOEVER! What could be simpler or easier to comprehend? 2012-04-05 Hjallti Funny you accuse people of not paying taxes to the ‘united states of america’ while some of these states by treaties belong to native americans who where captivated in reservates, after being tortured (I can imagine the first colonists, being sexual starved since there where no women among them, behaved badly against the indian females (forget that, I can’t imagine, but you seem to be able Wakai... says more about you than about the inquisition frankly)). Anyways those conquered and still colonized parts of the states are the ideal spots to use as nuclear tests sites (like the France on their islands in the Pacific, or the Russians on there far from moskou territories...) Amuzing, and anyways to say it with Phil... we don’t care 2012-04-05 Wakai Yushi How is this funny ... to love hate and hate love? It’s perversity! No wonder our society is so screwed... What if Jesus was devil not real Messiah but Satan who deceived many? what proof you have that he is not (yea because satan couldn’t say that) "He said “You already believe in God, now believe also in me.” " (Satan could not say that either, that would just make him a liar) It’s more likely that Jesus never existed but was an idea that Satan gave to Paul. “Furthermore, He said that the only way you can know God is through Him.” How do we know that Jesus “speaking to us” is not actually Satan? (Now that just sounds like something satan would say...) Jesus was just a man that deceived an entire world into thinking that he was the son of god. So yeah, in a sense, he could be considered Satan. But, I don’t believe in the Our dear Pope Jan Pawel II or satan, santa claus so... both are a big joke that are dead and gone I don’t really care, either way. 2012-04-05 Wakai Yushi You’re never more like Satan than when you gossip and speak evil of others. You are in fact accusing them. That’s what Satan does. So many people today, sadly this includes professed Christian believers as well, behave exactly like Satan with their mouths. I don’t like the whole premise of Christianity. The very concept of heaven is flawed, I’d much rather live on Earth again. If you want to believe in God, but don’t want to believe in Jesus, you have every right to do that. Religion doesn’t have to be about soul-crushing conformity. If Jesus existed, he was a blasphemer, a troublemaker, and an outlaw, who received the same punishment any common criminal would have gotten, if they claimed to be a god. Never forget that. If Jesus didn’t exist – it’s just another reason to bury the New Testament and move on. 2012-04-05 christian freeling "I’d much rather live on Earth again." So which planet are you on, currently? 2012-04-05 kingofthebesI Again meaning a preference for another life on Earth and not in the so called notion of “heaven.” How about burying this thread and moving on? 2012-04-05 Wakai Yushi Satanism In The Vatican! It is easy to find Satanic websites and occult stores where you can purchase all types of items with inverted crosses. The “Upside Down Cross†symbolizes mockery and rejection of Jesus. Necklaces are worn by many Satanists. It can often be seen on Rock singers and their album covers.” “...and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light†—2nd Corinthians 11:14. 2012-04-05 Wakai Yushi If Catholics’ Worshiped Satan, Would They Know? If the Baptist’s Worshiped Satan, Would They Know? If the Protestant’s Worshiped Satan, Would They Know? If “ALL†Christian’s Worshiped Satan, Would They Know? The Satan Hypotheses For the sake of this intellectual exercise, let’’s consider the following hypotheses: Satan exists and he is extremely evil and extremely powerful. Satan and his demons are disguised as the Catholic Church hierarchy in the Vatican. Satan has been convincing Catholics of this fact since the first century. Satan would do everything in his power to maintain the deception. Satan’’s goal is not to bring the world to a perfectly evil state but to keep the world at its most evil state possible at all times. What if......the guy who wrote this is corrupted by the devil? Conspiracy theorists strike again. 2012-04-05 Wakai Yushi “Why are so many evangelical Christian leaders caught in scandals?” ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=me2H7Ja93Wg#! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8iywp_classic-news-channel-5-robert-tilto_shortfilms http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3SIr4v_UddI#! 2012-04-06 Wakai Yushi The life stories of these popes now serve to illustrate the sinful side of human nature and remind us that even Religion’s own representative can lose his way. Here are ten of those stories, revealing some of the most power-hungry, sexually immoral, and ungodly men that have ever held the papacy – the worst popes.Millions have found hope because of Religious – but millions have also been slaughtered in the name of God. By his own words, Clement was “a sinner among sinners.†His love for expensive living quickly drained the savings of his frugal predecessor (Benedict XII), and Clement resorted to raising taxes and selling off bishoprics to finance his worldly pursuits. Throw in a little nepotism to boot, and you’ve got yourself a pope who may very well have been a man of decent character, but who also used his powerful position for his own sexual adventures, cheerful pleasures, and overall celebration of the world’s many vices. Even if some of the reports were falsified, it still appears that John XII made for a pretty bad pope. When we read the account of John’s death that claims he was murdered by a jealous husband whose wife was the object of the pope’s special attention, it’s not too hard to believe it. Not surprisingly, there is very little about Alexander VI that can be considered godly or even lawful. His goals were selfish and ambitious, and the orderly government he initially administered quickly deteriorated until the city of Rome was in a state of complete disrepair. The words spoken by Giovanni de Medici (the future Pope Leo X) after Borgia’’s election are telling: “Now we are in the power of a wolf, the most rapacious perhaps that this world has ever seen. And if we do not flee, he will inevitably devour us all.†2012-04-06 YHW 2012-04-06 Wakai Yushi Was the medieval church corrupt? Certainly there were abuses, grounded in human weakness, but the overall impression of vitality and diversity that characterized the medieval church does not justify this generalizing conclusion. To call the abuses that occurred during the Middle Ages “typical of the medieval church”, while depicting its critics and reforms as “ahead of their time” is an historical fallacy. In the medieval church, good and bad were mixed together, as they were (and are) in the church throughout all ages. One need only watch a modern-day televangelist to see that the abuse of religion to extort money is by no means unique to the late Middle Ages. 2012-04-06 Wakai Yushi Pope said Jesus was a Myth! I went looking for the source of the quote by Pope Leo X (1475—1521) “It has served us well. This myth of Christ†and I found a world of discussions on it. One question which I found interesting was if the Pope is supposed to be infallible and said this, than wouldn’t this place Jesus in the mythical position for all Catholics? 2012-04-06 Wakai Yushi Even though I don’t have a lot of evidence, but I believe that just by looking at Vatican alone (all the churches etc) you don’t build this without money. And where money and power is, there is corruption. Does anyone agree/disagree? Please let me know why. I appreciate everyone’s time and opinion. 2012-04-06 maraca 2012-04-06 Wakai Yushi Even though I don’t have a lot of evidence, but I believe that just by looking at Vatican alone (all the churches etc) you don’t build this without money. And where money and power is, there is corruption. Does anyone agree/disagree? Please let me know why. I appreciate everyone’s time and opinion. 2012-04-12 Wakai Yushi The gemara (Succah 51) say that the Yetzer Hara is so powerful that without Hashem’s help we could not overcome him. This is almost incomprehensible. If we are put in this world to fight the Yetzer Hara how could it be that without divine intervention we are destined to lose? Isn’t the whole point of Bechira that we can, and must, win? Rav Itzele Peterburger (Kochvei Ohr 9) explains that our mission in this world is to recognize Hashem in every aspect of our lives and make ourselves totally dependent on His help. When it comes to material help it is clear to us that we are powerless. After being around a little bit in this world, everyone with at least one eye in his head knows beyond the shadow of a doubt that Parnassa, health, and children are all the domain of Hashem alone, and all our effort cannot change anything. However when it comes to Ruchniyos, spiritual survival and growth, humans are born with bechira or choice. We can choose to do the right thing or we can choose to do the wrong thing. We are like Hashem in that respect. Given this, a person will naturally come to view himself as independent of Hashem regardless of whether he chooses right or wrong. This goes against everything Hashem wants for us for our own good. It creates a separation between us and Him. Therefore Hashem created a Yetzer Hara that we cannot fight on our own. In order to win we must once again turn to Hashem and connect ourselves to Him through tefila, begging for assistance in this unwinnable battle. True we have a choice but even if we choose the side of good, we still need help and we will get it if we daven. Oftentimes we see both in our own and in our children’s lives that everything is going wrong. At every turn we are hit with bad “luck”, driving either us or our children from the course we’ve chartered. Things seem to spiral out of control and we have no way out, a the Yetzer Hara has us bound and gagged. Left on our own devices we are doomed to falling through the abyss. Yet there is one place to turn, to Hashem. Just as Hashem set the table for our downfall, so too can he orchestrate our salvation. No situation can’t be undone with a few good moves on the chessboard. We can suddenly hear the magic words of inspiration, “find” the right mentor, or catch some other “lucky” break for a change, and just like that we pull ourselves out of the mud. What’s most heartening is that while we watch others fall and we think we are powerless to help, according to Rav Itzele’s words this is completely wrong. If the key is Tefila and the other person has fallen too far to even daven for himself, we can can do it for him. Don’t sit back and cry tears that fall to the ground. Send them up, and with these tears Hashem can very quickly turn things MeiAfeila L’Orah from darkness to light, U’Mishibud L’Geula and from being a trapped and lost soul to being free to soar. You can set the spark that will ignite a brilliant glow thar rises from the ashes. 2012-04-12 Thomas Werner Hi Wakai Yushi, your last post maybe could be a little bit off-topic. This thread originally was about the ex-pope JP2. Why don’t you create a thread dedicated exclusively to the interpretations of religious writings (like the Gemara, for example) instead? Unfortunately I am not much into the Talmud, so I will not be able to discuss on this topic, but maybe someone else here on LG would like to. Thomas 2012-04-13 Wakai Yushi I am for Judaism and I find abagail’s response appalling too. 2012-04-13 scottygr8 Ah, ok - You are for Judaism ! Bravo man bravo / So you believe in a God ? We were thinking you 'd like to start the Ever Evangelical Church of Wakai ! ( Just think of the possibilities - “ E E C OW ” - or ‘ EE Cow faith ’ ) 2012-04-13 scottygr8 Honestly , when I read a TIME Magazine article about this Pope I was truly moved by the picture ( photo ) of this man "looking in a Mirror !" For me, the picture says We All should examine ourselves each day - not just our religious beliefs. ( I am being real here Wak. Yu. , ok? ). To me , we all have to move forward each day - I admire people like Tim Tebow - Standing up for his belief - despite all of the Negative Press he receives ! ! 2012-04-13 scottygr8 To me , all of us can ignite or set sparks - Man I saw that brilliant glow a while back. Does Hashem say the darkness is powerless against the Light ? ? 2012-04-15 Wakai Yushi Yes, G-d created both, both are necessary! 2012-06-04 Wakai Yushi Promises and promises!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brVw-PJfsTY&feature=related “Why are so many evangelical Christian leaders caught in scandals?” 2012-06-21 scottygr8 “ For all have sinned , all have fallen short....... ” ( you know the rest - it is obvious that you read a lot ). These ‘evangelicals’ are just like you - just like me - they are Human. I am told we are all sinful by nature. ( you know the story of Cain and Abel ? ) Is it a ‘sign of the times’ today when MANY leaders have become corrupt & scandalous ? Or can we look throughout history & this is so ? 2012-06-22 Wakai Yushi Human or Animal? Monsignor William Lynn helped the archdiocese keep predators in ministry, and the public in the dark, by telling parishes their priest was being removed for health reasons and then sending the men to unsuspecting churches, prosecutors said. Animal or Satan? UPDATED AT 3:43 p.m. ET: PHILADELPHIA — A Roman Catholic church official was convicted Friday of child endangerment but acquitted of conspiracy in a groundbreaking clergy-abuse trial, becoming the first U.S. church official convicted of a crime for how he handled abuse claims.The trial opened a window on how one of the nation’s largest Catholic dioceses grappled with the scandal as it shook the broader church in the U.S. and elsewhere. The case has underscored both & this is so ?...the success and the shortcomings of the church’s handling of abuse allegations. Jesus or Satan? I keep saying it and will continue to say it: This is more evidence that “religious institutions” need to pay taxes. Just because the religious live in anachronistic, anti-Modern worlds, does not mean that they should receive the same services/benefits as the rest of us without paying taxes. Fantastic news! Wish the conspiracy charges were successful. I’d like to see the Pope charged next. This has been a worldwide problem throughout the Catholic Church. There is a culture that covers up for these Priests rather than holding them accountable and protecting the children. Prosecution, convicton, and incarceration is NOT enough. Hit them where it hurts. The POCKET BOOK!! Non profit my A$$. Tax payer dollars went to investigating and litigating this case, surrounding an organization that ‘legally’ skirts paying those same taxes. Last I looked, the catholic church might have a few more duckets than any of us taxpayers that payed for this. RIDICULOUS!! Now how many more tax dollars are spent in treating thier victims? Fine them in the multi-millions!!! At least get back a TINY portion of what this costs the every day schmuck that can’t claim they are a legitimate charity and bilk the people out of those billions. For them it is all about the $$$$$$$ !!!! Hit them where it hurts and they will make good and GOD d&mned sure this type of transgression stops. Our dear Pope Jan Pawel II is dead, jesus is dead, but the animal satan is alive in the catholic church playing as jesus again and that’s the real history1NI am sick of subsidizing intolerance. There are too may Catholic priests that are pedophiles. There are too many Catholic administrators, cardinals, bishops and priests who are guilty of turning a blind eye within. As a former cradle Catholic I’m completely flabbergasted why every priestly pedophile is not behind bars. All of these instances are criminal offenses!! Criminal offenses for the Cardinal Law’s of the world (and the Pope who was also involved in various cover-ups). But no, lets spirit them out of town and give them a cushy job in the Vatican until they pass on! Ah yes, but in the spirit of christian SATANIC INQUISITION RITUALS forgiveness and contrition, most of these folks feel the’ve been absolved. Absolved Hell!! They never paid taxes but they impose their views on us, sometime using the terrorists to kill doctors, human rights activists, atheists, feminists etc. To me they are the oldest mafia-terrorist-gang in the world.And our corrupted politicians are protecting them. We are not free people, we are prisoners of Vatican and other religious organizations THAT BELIEVE IN JESUS AS A GOD AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM JESUS IS SATAN. IS SATAN A HUMAN OR AN ANIMAL? I keep wondering exacty what would have to happen before the millions of catholic followers would have their eyes opened to the evil of this institution they blindly place their faith in. Haven’t they been taught about the work of the devil????? Apparently not. ref: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304765304577482741702908490.html 2012-07-17 scottygr8 7/ 17/ 2012 Anyone ready for some college football? No, that’s right – that institution has now been ruined ‘forever more’ by the despicable actions of a few ! I say we shall hang anyone in the NFL , NBA , or MLS who has fathered more than one child with different women. And they 've covered it all up with vast sums of money. I digress 2012-08-01 Wakai Yushi How can we heal the world? All things in life are temporary. $$$ If going well, enjoy it, they will not last forever. If going wrong, don’t worry, $$$ they can’t last long either. "Whether you think you can or you think you can’t... ...you are right" And if I try and it doesn’t go, and I try again and it still doesn’t go, I don’t kick. I accept 2012-08-01 Wakai Yushi **You Dad was right when he said , you must get rid of all of the bad apples ! But save the tree! Fortunately , the light always overcomes the darkness ! God is love God is light. Yes, G-d created both, both are necessary! Check Ship –– Take care of your soul(s) ( Now , I just won GO & wish to collect my 200 dollars)... I played go once GG gg! You might mean: "Whose turn is it?" 2012-08-30 scottygr8 Ah yes , Isaac tries to drench us, But will never dampen our Spirits ! Hurricane country here 2012-09-30 scottygr8 Interesting that you say ‘ both’ are necessary. Perhaps we all must be ‘tested’ by the evil forces in order to prove ourselves worthy, much like an ancient warrior or Samari . ( Last of the Mohiccan or Last of the Samari ) 2012-10-02 Wakai Yushi Consciousness, awareness, understanding, yes. We all must be ‘tested’ Now, of course there is another level beyond this. The moralistic level is like an entry room into the deeper levels. Once a person internalizes the ethical teachings of the Torah, then we open up to him the inner teachings. If a person wishes to bypass the moral teachings and go to the inner teachings, he will not succeed. Rather, on one very important level, the Bible is a moralistic text. In hundreds of places it makes the point very forcefully that good is rewarded, and evil and wrongdoing is punished; and that what is good and right, or evil and wrong, is decided by G-d, whether or not man understands the distinction. Furthermore, reward and punishment are not external; the reward for good is goodness. The reward for good essentially strengthens and re-establishes man’s relationship with his Creator; it changes his inner being into one of goodness; it grants him eternal attachment to the good based on his own actions. Similarly, punishment is not merely external; it is intended to cause an inner change; it is educative. Through suffering the consequences of his own actions and learning from his mistakes, man is purified and refined; he is ennobled to truly become man. This is what the Bible wants. This is what the Book of Psalms is all about. It could be called “the Book of Transformation.” On the surface, the Psalms (and the Bible in general) seem to speak about “evil people” and “righteous people” as if these were separate categories of people. Really, these are aspects of myself. It’s not just out there. It’s inside. I want to transform the lower parts of myself and transmute their energy and use it to grow and develop more than if I hadn’t had them! The greatest work is the work of self-transformation. If I was created righteous and perfect, there would be nothing for me to do. I was created with a part of me that needs to be worked on. This is what the Bible is about. It’s very psychologically advanced in my opinion; it’s beautiful. 2012-10-02 Wakai Yushi Consciousness, awareness, understanding, yes. We all must be ‘tested’ Now, of course there is another level beyond this. The moralistic level is like an entry room into the deeper levels. Once a person internalizes the ethical teachings of the Torah, then we open up to him the inner teachings. If a person wishes to bypass the moral teachings and go to the inner teachings, he will not succeed. Rather, on one very important level, the Bible is a moralistic text. In hundreds of places it makes the point very forcefully that good is rewarded, and evil and wrongdoing is punished; and that what is good and right, or evil and wrong, is decided by G-d, whether or not man understands the distinction. Furthermore, reward and punishment are not external; the reward for good is goodness. The reward for good essentially strengthens and re-establishes man’s relationship with his Creator; it changes his inner being into one of goodness; it grants him eternal attachment to the good based on his own actions. Similarly, punishment is not merely external; it is intended to cause an inner change; it is educative. Through suffering the consequences of his own actions and learning from his mistakes, man is purified and refined; he is ennobled to truly become man. This is what the Bible wants. This is what the Book of Psalms is all about. It could be called “the Book of Transformation.” On the surface, the Psalms (and the Bible in general) seem to speak about “evil people” and “righteous people” as if these were separate categories of people. Really, these are aspects of myself. It’s not just out there. It’s inside. I want to transform the lower parts of myself and transmute their energy and use it to grow and develop more than if I hadn’t had them! The greatest work is the work of self-transformation. If I was created righteous and perfect, there would be nothing for me to do. I was created with a part of me that needs to be worked on. This is what the Bible is about. It’s very psychologically advanced in my opinion; it’s beautiful. 2013-01-16 scottygr8 Happy New Year to All: An ancient Indian Tribe says Power is everywhere , in the Earth , in the Sky , in the Air , in fire , in water .. " What could be more Necessary than to suffer or even lose one’s life for a good cause " ? 2013-01-22 Wakai Yushi Retired Cardinal Roger Mahony and other top Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles officials maneuvered behind the scenes to shield molester priests, provide damage control for the church and keep parishioners in the dark, according to church personnel files. The confidential records filed in a lawsuit against the archdiocese disclose how the church handled abuse allegations for decades and also reveal dissent from a top Mahony aide who criticized his superiors for covering up allegations of abuse rather than protecting children. Notes inked by Mahony demonstrate he was disturbed about abuse and sent problem priests for treatment, but there also were lengthy delays or oversights in some cases. Mahony received psychological reports on some priests that mentioned the possibility of many other victims, for example, but there is no indication that he or other church leaders investigated further. 2013-02-18 Wakai Yushi Once again the catholic church is spinning instead of taking action. It is deplorable that when the facts are brought out the church uses Satan as the reason. The reason for the backlash is that these priests committed a crime and got away with it. I don’t want to hear that they will be judged by God, which does not help the victims. The obligation is to report the crime not sweep it under the rug. I think the Catholic Church in a decline like the depression. They don’’t deserve the credit they claim to be representative of God. They don’’t have exclusivity to God. Indeed the Vatican has behaved brutally throughout history. If Jesus didn’t exist –– it’’s just another reason to bury the New Testament and move on. Furthermore, as a nation, the Vatican, own lots of property in America, all without paying taxes. TAX them. It is just another of the false communist religions of the world that has had power and abused it. What is wrong with having one’’s own faith and one’’s own culture? Leave the people alone. When is it time to stop killing in the name of ““God?”” How many have died due to religious fanatics efforts to impose their God, their culture upon others? How can religion be a mission of Peace when torture, persecution and execution are the tools of the trade? Roman Catholics have butchered and murdering the true saints throughout history – don’t partake of drinking the wine of her fornication. You are actually going to blame ““Satan”” for this outrage? Why not accept responsibility for the ruined lives of trusting young naive children instead? Don’’t these perverted priests had ““free, will?”” Take a good advice and use your brain to think rather than blindly accepting everything the church and Vatican do is right! Jesus killed himself to save us from himself. Weird . . . The above image depicts the ““Witch’s Kiss.”” It was believed that part of the rite of becoming a witch in Satan’’s service involved kissing Satan’’s rear. This sexual perversion centered on female witches, and their supposed sexual relations with demons. Toward this end, ““The Malleus Maleficarum”” is a most enlightening document, as it demonstrates the sudden, new terror facing any woman living during the time of the Great Inquisition; if she was ever accused of being a witch, she could find herself being tortured in a very special way, as we detail below. What woman would not submit to a priest’’s demand in the Confessional to have sex with him, or be turned over to the “The devil knows more from being old than from being the devil? One cannot blame Satan for your shortcomings, nor blame him for what the priests and the Vatican has been doing for years without punishment. It is very much like you to blame him(Satan) rather than to accept responsibility for your own actions. How sad. Satan is empowered by those who CHOOSE to do wrong rather than what is right, and when you need an escape goat, you blame Satan. When you stand before God the creator, and he asks you why you did what you did, try giving him the excuse, ““the devil made me do it”” all the while knowing that you made your choice to pick Satan over God in your action(s). 2013-02-18 Wakai Yushi Why haven’’t Roman Catholics noticed what God says? NO IDOLS! NO IMAGES! This means: AT ALL TIMES! No ““RELIGIOUS”” usage of statues or likenesses of anything! NONE, WHATSOEVER! What could be simpler or easier to comprehend? What the Bible says is the truth. Mary is asleep in her grave and cannot appear to anyone. The Virgin Mary –– Calling the devil is not the same as seeing him come. Worshiping Her Is Evil the Pope deleted the 2nd of the 10 commandments so they could use statues & images in worship. They split the 10th commandment on coveting into two commandments so they could still have 10 in? Number. Look at the list? Of 10 commandments published by the rcc! The issue here is not how the Ten Commandments are numbered, but rather the issue is that most published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words, ““you will not for yourself an idol.”” The papacy has made colossal fools of untold millions of people down through history, and it is still doing so today. This is the true face of the Roman Catholic Church, the church that ““never changes.”” ROME’’S VENERATION OF THE VIRGIN MARY IS SIMPLY A CONTINUATION OF THE WORSHIP OF THE VIRGIN MOTHER –– DIVINES CHILD IN THE PAGAN SUN GOD TRADITION! Since this, is the opinion of women in the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy., Is it any wonder that women felt especially vulnerable to the Inquisition? With priests who have this unbelievably distorted view of the basic lack of worth of a woman, is it too much to understand they tortured women the way in which they did? “Holy”” Inquisition? You can imagine what this type of action against a woman might turn into when performed by a priest who is sex-starved through celibacy. As the priest put his fingers into the woman’’s sexual parts to ““search for a piece of parchment, “” he is likely to become so sexually aroused as to go out of control; indeed, this was the plan on the part of many a priest during the Inquisition, as this was his opportunity to vent his pent-up sexual lust. What is the case with the doctrine of eternal torment? We find that a majority of its advocates, Christian preachers and teachers with illumined consciences, say again and again, ““I wish this were not true.” Do you also know the story of Jesus on the Cross and the two ( 2 men ) put to death alongside him? One repents & the other mocked him? God makes them and they look for each other this leads us to ask the question, Has the death of Christ on the cross accomplished anything for angels and especially anything for fallen angels or demons? Jesus was just a man that deceived an entire world into thinking that he was the son of a god. So yeah, in a sense, he could be considered Satan. Better be one-eyed than quite blind. PS. I get some sort of crazy satisfaction knowing that some pope 20-100 years from now will have to step up and apologize for the monstrous misinformation that his predecessors contributed toward today. I hope I’’ll be alive when it happens so I can let everyone know that I totally called it. 2013-03-01 Wakai Yushi I suppose in three days, give or take, it will be resurrected (again). 2013-03-10 scottygr8 This time it took about nine days. 2013-03-12 Wakai Yushi Indeed, the Torah calls the transgression of homosexuality an “abomination, saying, “Thou shall not lie with a man after the manner of a woman; it is an abomination” (Leviticus, 18:22). “David et Jonathan”. There is a general commandment: “Be holy for I the L-rd your G-d am holy” (Leviticus 19:1). Homexesualism are not holy and should be avoided.Thus, the Old testment the Torah states: “Thou shall not lie with a man after the manner of a woman, it is an abomination. Neither shall lie with any beast to defile thyself with it; neither shall a woman stand before a beast to lie down before it, it is a perversion. Defile not yourselves with any of these things; for in all of these, the gentiles which I cast out before you were defiled, and the land was defiled; therefore I do punish its iniquity upon it, and the Land of Israel vomits out its inhabitants... For whoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore you shall keep my laws, that you commit not any one of these abominable doings which were practiced before you, and that you defile not yourselves in them; I am the L-rd your G-d” (leviticos AS Bib 18:22-30). And while the term abomination is certainly a harsh condemnation, other sins are also referred to as abominations, for instance adultery, and the eating of creatures which creep on the earth. Like pigs. Thus while homosexual acts have terrible personal, social, and spiritual consequences, a homosexual need not be put under a communal ban, or be denied entry to the synagogue, or even be denied the privilege of being called up to the Torah. Certainly homosexual behavior must be rejected and scorned in no uncertain terms, but it is wise to keep in mind that when Avraham prayed to spare the city of Sodom from destruction, homosexuals were also included in his plea for mercy. 2013-03-25 Wakai Yushi I always thought going to HELL was a BAD thing... 2013-04-30 Wakai Yushi Vatican: An apostolic “inspection” visit to Puerto Rico The Vatican has ordered an apostolic visit for the Archdiocese of San Juan, Puerto Rico. An extensive and in-depth inquiry, which has already caused controversy in the country. Holy See authorities want to confirm whether some of the accusations made against Archbishop Roberto Gonzalez Nieves are true, especially with regards to the alleged mismanagement of the ministry. But the Puerto Rican faithful are willing to defend their pastor. The Congregation for the Clergy of the Holy See ordered the visit and, as indicated by the same Gonzáález Nieves, the apostolic visitor will be the Archbishop of Guayaquil (Ecuador), Antonio Arregui Yarza. The prelate began his investigation on 25 October with a series of interviews. “The archdiocese would like to thank the Holy See and, in particular, the Congregation for the Clergy, for its attention to this local Church. At the same time, it invites all the Catholic faithful: priests, religious and lays, to accompany the outcome of the apostolic visit with their prayers. Since this is an internal process of the Church, this servant will not make any additional statements in this regard,”” he remarked in a note. According to press reports, investigations have begun for a presumed ““political interventionism”” of Archbishop Gonzáález, who would have made ? ?the mistake of mounting an ““altar of the fatherland”” which boasted the flag of Puerto Rico. The story is not irrelevant, because the issue of national sovereignty divides the population of this country which is, in fact, a U.S. protectorate. But the issue is far more complex than this. The Vatican Insider has confirmed that the apostolic visit was born after a series of complaints about alleged mismanagement of the ministry, which would involve some unclear economic movements, improper attitudes by diocesan clergy and some cases of abuse against minors.

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