right now, the federal agency of the USA has a puerto rican “independentista” surrounded in his house. his wife has been shot and injured and the “federals” is interrupting the work of the media or press so they CANT cover what is happening…

u know what this means.

to spanish speaking people u can hear what is happening at;

www.radioisla1320.com

this is another way of how puerto rico has been treated during the 107 years of tyranny of the USA.

the consistent rumours is that the USA goverment killed ojeda rios…

the USA goverment in puerto rico still hasnt made any declarations and the demostrations of protests has just begun.

i heard so many rumours and horrible ones but i wont give them any credits until the rumour of the assasination is clear.

These forums are for discussions of *GAMES* not for

politically oriented trolls. I won't dignify your bogus

story with a detailed refutation.

The most basic facts regarding the relationship between Puerto Rico and the United States would seem to be the following. In 1898, Spain ceded Puerto Rico to the United States as a result of the Spanish-American War. The Puerto Rican people were granted U.S. citizenship in 1917. Puerto Rico is internally self-governing under a constitution adopted in 1952. Puerto Rico retains the right to become one of the states of the U.S. if they so choose.

1rst, the usa citizenship wasnt granted…it was imposed.

and secondly, our “self-governing” goverment or as it is called “estado libre asociado” is just a pretty name for what it really is; a colony of the usa.

our status “problem” is still discuss at the united nations…in case u didnt know that.

but anyway, that doesnt change the abuse and sometimes atrocities done to my country.

and thirdly, yes, people have opted for this status (estado libre asociado) and even many people wants to be part of the usa as a state…that phenomenon happens when u, FOR YEARS and consistently, abuse, kill, persecute, marginate any sign of patriotic feeling.

i invite u to read about;pedro albizu campos, cerro maravilla, masacre de ponce, masacre de rio piedras, dr. rhodes (this doctor exprimented with cancer with puerto ricans in the 30's) and other “experiments” with the puerto ricans.

and instead saying without any base or fundament the word “bogus”…i invite u to read.

and by the way, here is some information of newspapers from PR;

www.endi.com

www.primerahora.com

www.vocero.com

right now, the rumours are that ojeda rios is dead but the federal agency hasnt give any information, has abuse the media so they cant get to the information and the tmsphere is very tense in the island.

im not saying that the usa goverment doesnt has any reason for capturing this man…but the way that is been done and by experience, this doesnt look well.

by the way, today the “independentistas” celebrate “el grito de lares”. this day remembers when puerto ricans tried to get the independece from spain.

there is something symbolic about all this…or is it just coincidence.

As I said, this is a forum for the discussion of *GAMES* not politics. If you wish to discuss this, then please take it to an appropriate newsgroup.

right now, there isnt any concrete information about the condition of ojeda rios. the usa goverment STILL doesnt let the media to inform…and WORSE, all this was done without the knowledge of the local (puerto rico) goverment and they dont let our oficials (police and fiscals) on the area.

oh yes, this is a “self governing” country…yes, aha.

In case anybody is interested, here are some links to info. about Filiberto Ojeda Rios.

Wikipedia Article -- includes a biography, his recent apparent death, the charges against him, and references and links.

FBI Most Wanted Listing of Filiberto Ojeda Rios -- Rios was the leader of a clandestine paramilitary organization that has claimed responsibility for numerous armed robberies and terrorist bombings over the past three decades. He was sought primarily for his role with the 1983 armed robbery of $7.2 million from the Wells Fargo Depot in Hartford, Connecticut.

Associated Press Article -- Friday news article about the recent FBI shootout leading to capture/death of Rios.

Another A.P. Article -- Saturday news article about the events leading to Rios' death.

as u said, the primary reason for arresting him was for robbery…but the real reason was that he escape or jump bail. the other charges were lost for the federal or usa goverment in 1989. THE 1RST TIME AN “INDEPENDENTISTA” HAS WON AGAISNT THE USA GOVERMENT BECAUSE OTHER INDEPENDECE LEARDERS HAS LOST TO THE OPRESSIVE USA GOVERMENT.

but anyway, if u feel comfortable to justify the way the usa goverment handle the killing of ojeda rios with implying that he is a “terrorist” or something…is your decision.

did u know that he was killed around 3 to 4 oclock in the afternoon and the usa goverment hasnt allowed the media, the local goverment (as u called it “self governing”) to assist or to investigate on the CRIME scene. i mean, they could have torture him, see him bleed to death or just murder him and manipulate the crime scene and nobody could know what happen.

thats the horrible part, all that secret, all that arrogance of power…to find out at the end that they have killed him.

and nobody knows the facts…but only the one that killed him, the usa goverment.

so justify this killing because he was a acussed of being a “thief” ?

but anyway, is good to know u are reading about this situation, that is the main idea. but dont stpo there;

masacre de ponce

cerro maravilla

pedro albizu campos

mari bras

masacre de rio piedras

experiments with the people of puerto rico

how we are send to wars that dont concern us

read on!

right now, i learned that the usa goverment grant permission the the puerto rican officials to the CRIME scene…22 HOURS AFTER THE KILLING!!!

that means that if ojeda rios was assasinated at 3 or 4 oclock in the afternoon, the usa goverment let the puerto ricans officials to investigate or take record at 2 or 3 oclock of the other day.

by the way, in the usa revolution agaisnt britian there were a revolutionary organization called the “sons of liberty”. they considered violence part of their program and they took part of the “boston tea party”.

the britians considered them a terrorist organization…now the “sons of liberty” and ALL that took part on the revolution of the usa are heroes and patriots. of course, they won their liberty.

isnt winning fun?

If verballing attacking the USA is really what you feel that you need to do. I think, do it elsewhere.

attacking? i see it more as a cry for help and releasing some tension that im and the people of puerto rico is feeling.

i dont know and excuse me if offended someone but i just thought that people will like to be informed about the injustice tht has been done.

why at Little golem? well, to tell u the truth, LG is a page where i freguently visit and the only forum i participate.

im sorry that u find that this topic is about trashing some OTHER nation. no, is not what was intended. this topic is about an assasination and the usa goverment just to be the killer. believe me, if it was another nation i will be feeling the same.

this is terrible! it is confirmed. filiberto ojeda rios died because of lack of medical attention.

the autopsy reflected that he died from a long bleeding (desangrandose) until his old body couldnt take it no more. what i mean is that he was left dying, had a long agony and that maybe medical attention could have save him …but the usa goverment let him die. thats explain why the federals WOULDNT let the puerto rican officials and media to the site or crime scene.

now the question is WHAT this stupid and “ARRASTRADO” goverment of puerto rico is going to do with this unjustice and crime.

the governor of PR has expressed himself that he is angry and will start an investigation. i hope so and will be very dissapointed (and is not the 1rst time) if he in the end ignore all this by been afraid of the usa goverment…like it always happens. even the leaders of the PNP (this party wants to be part of the usa) that is in the habit to tolerate the unjustice of the usa goverment because of their ideology are disgust of the way this was handle.

i hope the puerto ricans wake up from this one.

right now, in the news in PR the secretary of justice gave the fact that ojeda rios shot five times and the usa goverment more than a hundred.

by the way, when his body was found by the local officials his hand was in the shot wound…like he was trying to stop the bleeding.

This is too easy. I don't even have to try to discredit you; you are discrediting yourself far more effectively than I or anyone could ever do. Instead of rational thoughtful critism, you give hysterical ravings in defense of a man who has publicly boasted about his numerous acts of bombing innocent people. If you like making yourself look bad, then please continue.

Hi, I just wanted to tell pitirre to feel free to express his feelings here. I don't think anyone has the right to decide which topic can or can't be discussed here. This is the general forum.

Who is stopping Yayael Zumzum (whatever is present nickname is), from discussing esoteric themes? Astrovick from discussing flying saucers? Or our pole friends from expressing themselves about the loss of their pope.

I think pitirre as a puerto rican is legitimately affected by something that is happening in his country.

In a different thread pitirre expressed how lonely he feels with his go-board in his home town. This (little golem) is simply the place where he feels welcome to speak up. Welcome he is!

I totally agrre with bennok

thanks, bennok and ypercube. if u are interested (or others) in this news but in english u can look it up at the new york times, boston globe or the washington post in the internet. just write in the search “filiberto ojeda rios” and read about it. is not much of information like the locals news in puerto rico but enough to get the idea of what is happening.

glenn, u say that “this is too easy”. do u think this is a game? do u think this is another game from LG like streetsoccer or dots and boxes? this is not a game for me, this IS daily life in puerto rico where crime, corruption and political discrimination is breath everyday.

that u dont like the methods of violence use by liberal organizations…guess what??? me neither! but i understand that violence are a part to get things done when liberty is concern. just like your great country once did a long time ago to gain their freedom.

how i wish that the usa just get the hell out my lil island and leave us mature and decide our destiny…but is not that simple and that is why in PR exists multiple organizations for independence and one of them uses violence tactics.

but u are missing something important here and im trying to point out and that is the WAY the usa goverment intervene with this matter; illegal and abusive…and i can bet is just because it is political. remember, this man is a fugitive because he jumped bail and was waiting trial for robbery. you are consistently saying bombs or deads …but the true is that the fbi is looking this man for robbery. but of course, the manners and all the secretive are political punishment, because he is a freedom fighter.

last friday nigt i wasnt so anguish or so ansious because of filiberto ojeda rios, is was because i knew they (usa goverment) were going to kill this man or torture him (which they did) just because he is fighting for some noble and respectful ideal…LIBERTY.

I also agree that pitirre has the right to speak freely here and tell who he sees the puerto rican situation.

Since this server is also not located in the US there is no reason to only tell historical facts from the view point of the US.

(There are still people in the US that actually believe JFK was murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald. If someone would state this here it wouldn't be wrong to do so (although it might look silly that you believe the 'golden bullet theory', and that that guy actually could fire 3 shots within 5 seconds with that weapon; but that doesn't make it wrong to post it here))

It's very hard for me to admit when I was wrong, but I was, and retract what I said. I've been here a long time, and numerous, non-game related topics have been here.

What was annoying about Pitirre's initial messages was that they contained little more than rage-based irrationality. There have been other off-topic discussions but none of them contained this kind of ranting and raving. My intention was to help prevent the standards of discourse in this forum from degenerating into something that sounds like a bunch of schoolyard brats. Fortunately, it is starting to appear that no such action was necessary; Pitirre seems to have calmed down quite a bit in his last post. As long as Pitirre maintains a reasonable level of civility without ranting and raving, then I no objection to his messages.

I really don't want to debate the topic of Puerto Rican

independence but I would like to point out that Pitirre's viewpoint is held by only a very small percentage of the Puerto Rican population. There have been three public referendum's regarding the political status of Puerto Rico. Independence received respectively, 1%, 4.4%, and 2.5% of

the vote. The overwhelming majority of Puerto Ricans are split between those favoring statehood and those favoring commonwealth status (those favoring commonwealth status is

the larger of these two groups).

irrational? brat?

…whatever.

u are mentioning the lack of support for independence in puerto rico.

?????

tell me, please, what this and other comments u had done got to do with the assasination of a person?

if u want i can discuss the political status of puerto rico in another topic…just write it in the forum and i will gladly participate.

but, if i remember well, i started this topic about the killing of a person that happened to be an “independentista” and for that reason (im sure) they let him die …bleeding to his death.

why do u try to justify this crime and unjustice with how many people voted in past elections…

i dont know.

\\\______________________________

right now, the widow of ojeda rios and neighbors had declare that the usa goverment started firing first inmediately helicopters arrived.

and most important!!! the widow of ojeda rios said that her husband was ready to give himself up to the federals or usa officials BUT only if a reporter was present …the usa goverment didnt want to negotiate and continue firing to a 72 years old man.

obviously and logical, they (usa goverment) had one thing in mind…to finish up this “independentista” and ONCE AGAIN punishing any patriotic feeling of a puerto rican.

Americans (myself included) have no right to complain when we hear that other countries have negative opinions about us after we rename french fries “freedom fries” and smash bottles of French wine when France did not support our illegal war. And that is just the most innane of international relations problems.

People have every right to post in the general forum without being called “bogus” or sarcasticaly dismissed. We Americans should be the first to defend his right to post freely. One doesn't need to read a thread if they are offended.

Emotional arguments should not be avoided, in fact appealing to emotions is an effective method of argument which is taught in college level writing classes. Pittire has put a pathological argument to good use as can be seen in the relatively large number of replies in only two days.

and i want to point out that i have nothing agaisnt “estadounidenses” (united states citizens) and that is why i always say “usa goverment” and those in many ocasions i have a problem with. i have many friends “estadounidenses” living here in PR and i think they are very friendly, easy going and with good feelings.

i am puerto rican and i dont have a problem saying that the goverment that represent me is stupid and corrupted like i said before…because is the truth!!! but the people is another matter.

just want to point that out.

No pitirre, as I said I am not interested in debating the political status of Puerto Rico.

Also, my comment about the relative unpopularity of your Puerto Rican independence viewpoint was not directed towards any of your arguments or claims (like I said, I'm not interested), nor to you personally. It was directed towards a few general readers of the forum. When some people encounter one member of a group, they sometimes assume that the other members of that group are typically like that one particular member. I was simply pointing out to any such readers, that this is not true in this case. I.e. most Puerto Ricans hold a very different view.

In regards to one of Dustin's comments, the right to speak freely does *NOT* entail the obligation on others to treat that particularly speech seriously. If a member of the

Flat Earth Society were the write a message in this forum

saying that the statement “the earth is flat” should be taught as a fact in science classes, then I have the perfect right to dismiss that view as bogus. If somebody writes a message expousing a view that I think is too warped to be worthy of the time it would take to thoroughly refute it, then I have the right to say so. Surely I have much right to speak my mind as the person I'm responding to does.

glenn, nobody here is claiming that the earth is flat. the discussion here is about a crime or assasination that u clearly say that u are NOT INTERESTED …but to eager that i stop discussing it.

\\\___________________________________

yesterday i was hearing the declarations of the widow and i cry a lil especially when she, with her voice cracking up, cried; “fuera los federales, fuera los malditos federales”.

today they going to bury filiberto ojeda rios and i hope nobody bury with him all the facts that clearly indicate that in this operation for capturing this freedom fighter there was a crime and unjustice.

and i hope with this death it can flourish AGAIN the pride, dignity, braveness and the union of this puerto rican society that for a long time has been push down, deep down to a place almost forgotten by the enemies of liberty and “alcahuetes”.

I think you don't understand Glenn's point of view

yes, i dont.

by the way, a detail that i forget to mention (and there is a lot) is that the usa goverment officials that assasinated filiberto ojeda rios an “independetista” that represents a MINORITY (are u happy now, glenn?) in PR tried to justify that one reason that they didnt check out if this man was still alive is because they (federals) were TIRED.

im here thinking now, isnt it funny how lil tolerance and how many people diminish any sign of human characteristics to those persons that dont share the same VIEWS of the MAJORITY to the point to justify a murder.

well, thats it!

i think i inform all of u the best i can and gave u some sites where u can continue to learn about this case if desire.

the usa goverment has said that they dont see nothing wrong on how their officials handle this case (incredible!!) but they, anyway, will start an investigation of their own. lets see.

here in PR the colonial goverment is upset…but thats it. they will start an investigation or are investigating now the obvious crime that happened in “hormigueros”, where filiberto ojeda rios was murdered. but the real problem is the lack of powers that the puerto rican nation has and only independence can offer “true” self governing and NOT this colonial status that the MAJORITY still holds dearly (fear) even when thru decades the people has been abuse, killed, used or discriminated…but tolerate because they have learn by conditioning and fist that WE dont have what it takes to make it on our own and choose our own destiny.

i only hope that the persons that read this topic are enough interested to discuss this situation to other person wherever u live and i dont expect that all of u agree with me but i will be happy that between beers or coffee with a friend, you say; “hey, did u hear about how this man in PR was killed by usa goverment”?