General forum: speed up tournaments suggestions

44 replies. Last post: 2010-08-02
Reply to this topic       Return to forum

speed up tournaments suggestions 2002-06-26 Hjallti It might be interesting to get some things to speed up the games, and tournaments (without leaving the 240+36/turn rule). i) If a player has only one (or no) possible move, the turn (or pass) could be played by the computer rather then by the player. ii) Is it possible to resign a game when it is not your turn? iii) It might be possible to give people the chance to predict an opponents move, and give the answer. (I know this is a very complicated thing to make possible.) Anyone other suggestions? 2002-06-26 Jan Beran Good ideas. Ad iii. Do you mean programming moves for the future in relation how moves an oponent? It should be good, but if it would be implemented, there will be duels of robots here. :-) 2002-06-26 Taral Another idea is to start round 2 of a tournament before all the games in round 1 are finished. This is possible if the winners of all the groups in round 1 have been determined, and the only games left to be played are between players who don't have a chance to advance to the second round. 2002-06-26 Hjallti The last idea is obviously good, it is even possible that the winning player is still playing, as a matter of fact. To answer the other question... Indeed people can create robots instead of playing themselves, but that is alreasy the case... in fact we just have to hope that people are honest enough to play themselves, in fact it is merely a question of proud I guess. 2002-06-27 ladystarr As a person who plays reversi on several different sites everyday, I feel I can input the following.....this is the Very Best site I've found so far!! The play is fair. The tournaments are played fair and square. I also play on a site that has "computer guessing" (it is not reversi) however in the same vein of things... the computer at times forces moves on me that I would not ordinarily make. Needless to say I've found it very inferior to this site and quite frustrating. So I hope that "computer guessing" is not introduced in reversi games here. Do you really want to sacrifice quality for speed? Why fix something that isn't broke?? I'll get of my soapbox now....thank you for listening. 2002-06-27 Taral I don't think this is exactly what Hjallti suggested. The point is to give the players the option to guess the opponent's move before the opponent actually makes the move. So if my opponent has, say, two moves available, I can tell the server that if my opponent moves A, then I do this, and if my opponent moves B, then I do that. Of course, if you don't want to use this feature, you don't have to. But as Hjallti mentioned, programming this seems quite complicated. 2002-06-27 Hjallti Indeed I meant the latter... the former seems very strange to me. My suggestions shouldn't change gameplay, except from the I suppose annoying 'passes' some opponents have to play alot during mine and others reversi games. Since go is the prime game here, these changes won't affect alot of games anyway. 2002-07-12 Hjallti Another suggestion, might be that the vacantion days are not 20 on first login, but are recieved when playing longer... for instance 2 vacation days a month in the first 10 months. That way the people leving the site, after a week, or after first login, don't delay tournaments for a month. 2002-07-13 Ed Collins Hjallti, that is an excellent suggestion. I'm playing in a couple of different Hex tourneys and one of my opponents has not made a single move yet, in both games. These games started in mid June, over 20 days ago. This player appears to be a new player who signed on and has no intention of coming back. I agree... your vacation days should not kick in until you've been playing on the server for a period of time, however short that might be. 2002-07-13 klaashaas I definately love to see automatic passes and automatic play of forced moves (=positions where only one move is possible) in the reversi games! I've had some games where my opponent had a pass or a forced move for 5 or 6 moves in a row. I dont think my opponent had any fun during those moves, and therefor they should be played automatically. Or at least optional... 2002-07-14 Magnus No, I didn't enjoy it a bit. And I agree totally that it would be nice with autopass in Reversi. I've been on both sides in a passing game, and didn't enjoy either! 2002-07-24 Hjallti I'm just replying to put this treat back in front of the forum. It might be nice to have a subpart of the forum dedicated to all kind of suggestions to enhance the site. I believe this site is already great, but could get better anyway. Any other ideas to speed up tourneys? 2002-07-24 Kevin L. Kitchens I disagree with the preprogrammed move or automatic moves of players. --- Preprogrammed (that is the player can say "If they do X, I do Y") moves should not be included because the player should be forced to make their move when it is their turn. They can leave themselves notes if they like, but the ability to program moves in hours in advance removes the element of human error we all succumb to from time to time. If it's my turn and I am trying to rush through to go to bed, I might make a mistake. Whereas if I sit and plot the moves and give myself hours to plan them and program them, then I am less apt to make a mistake. --- Computer AI moves should be avoided because even if there is only ONE move to make, it is up to the PLAYER to make the move. Not have it done for them. In the case of no moves, and a passed turn, then fine. But if there is a move to be made, it must be made by the player to be fair -- The time taken by the player could have a real effect on his opponent. They could also miss their turn, forfeiting the game. 2002-07-25 Ed Collins Add my name to the list of people who would prefer to have the system automatically make forced moves and forced passes. I have no problem with the program doing that for me when it's my opponent's turn and I have only one move (or no moves) available. Go ahead and make the moves for me. Isn't that what computers are for... to make things easier for us humans? And I certainly love it when it's my turn and I can get in a whole bunch of moves at one time, when my opponent has just one reply (or no replies). This option is available at other tunr-based sites and it's a blessing and a time-saver. 2002-07-25 Hjallti KLK, I don't understand at all why you would want to win games by silly mistakes of others, I want to beat others when they are on their best, actually. If you want to win games all the time, you just play against bad players, so you don't have to hope on mistakes. 2002-07-25 Kevin L. Kitchens I don't WANT to win games on technicalities, but sometimes you do and that's part of the game. | In basketball, if the best player fouls out on technicalities, giving the other team the chance to win, it's still a win. Same with football, soccer, baseball, etc. | I, like everyone else, WANT to win a clean game. But if it doesn't happen, so be it. 2002-07-25 Magnus But this isn't any ballplay. This is turn based games. And if I could premake my moves, I might as well do the misstake then and there, because I missed some little point or I was tired at the time. I make many moves right before I go to bed, and that might explain some of my moves :) And if somone preprogrammed their moves I might make more then and there. That would really speed up the time. It's more probable I can take some 'Hours' to think my move throu if I can do that at Your time, then if I have to do it in my already counting time. Right? And an autopass is warmly recomended by me! I hate to log on and see that the only thing I can do is Pass. Btw, I would probably not use preprogrammed moves, but if somebody else want to, I don't see a problem with it. 2002-07-25 Kevin L. Kitchens It just takes away an element of the game and it unnecessary. Let's get the site improved before we make unneeded changes to the games themselves. 2002-07-26 Hjallti dzjee, on another topic you say people are hostile to suggestions when they don't agree with your own point of view, and here you're doing yourself. The reason I post suggestions to the forum, rather than to Richard himself is to get other opinions... I see your point (partly), and while I disagree, the disagreement itself should be enough reason for Ryo to postpone, or even forget implementing my idea. In this list there are enough other ideas which seem less disputable, to give Ryo work for some months anyway. In other words don't get in to long discussions on one particular idea... 2002-07-30 Richard Malaschitz Probable, best and simplest possibility is create option for players: "Only moves in position play automatically". But in several games (reversi, gwg), player has not possibility to write message to oponent. 2002-07-30 klaashaas If you mean that the player misses the chat-message if he automatically passes, then you can solve that by telling the player his opponent didnt read the message, because (s)he uses the auto-move option. The player can then tell his thing with the next move... or next... 2002-07-30 Richard Malaschitz I intended last move in game. 2002-07-30 klaashaas If you want to thank someone for the game or want to say something else with the last move, you can use the message-system. 2002-08-01 Judy I don't know what tournaments are being talked about, but it is totaly frustrating when a game (GWG) is down to two or three letters, with no possible words left, and the losing player just flakes out and goes on to play a lot of other people ignoring the unfinished ( and losing ) game. The time limits are waaaay too long and all of these "vacation days" added on are bunk! If a person knows that they are going on a real vacation, then stay out of games that cannot be finished in a reasonable length of time... I think that if a player doesn't make a move in just 10 days, it should be forfited. Hello folks.....some of want to play, and have a right to expect to finish. Just take a look at all of the tournaments months old that are not done yet. Maybe a maxium of ongoing games should be imposed, and no new games allowed until some are ended. 2002-08-01 Hjallti I also detest people who stop playing certain games, while continuing in other games, when they know they are losing. But that is no reason to dump a good system of time. I also don't see what it would help by stopping people to play a lot of games. Playing a lot of games is a solution (since the more games you play; the more fun, and the less you get disturb by games lingering on too long). Sorry but like to play, and play a lot, but still I'm happy to say I've seen Venice this year, and went scouting, and will see Amsterdam, without being scared that games time-out. If you want fast games, don't play turn-based! Of course I also would love to see tournament fasten up, but not at the cost not able to play since a holliday is planned in 3 months. 2002-08-01 Hjallti I also detest people who stop playing certain games, while continuing in other games, when they know they are losing. But that is no reason to dump a good system of time. I also don't see what it would help by stopping people to play a lot of games. Playing a lot of games is a solution (since the more games you play; the more fun, and the less you get disturb by games lingering on too long). Sorry but like to play, and play a lot, but still I'm happy to say I've seen Venice this year, and went scouting, and will see Amsterdam, without being scared that games time-out. If you want fast games, don't play turn-based! Of course I also would love to see tournament fasten up, but not at the cost not able to play since a holliday is planned in 3 months. 2002-08-03 Craig Yeah this all sounds like good ideas... although im not totally sure about the idea of the computer making moves for me if there is only one move available, (it would depend on how accurate the decision of this one move left options was as i have been on a alternative site where the computer did not see all the possabilities!) otherwise the ideas all sound pretty good to me! 2002-08-03 Craig maybee the vacation days would be better used if any more that say 2 are to be used the player had to activate that option ... this would enable a warning to be sent to the other player to let them know that there would be a delay ... this way people would not have to wait out the full 20 days unless the other plyer really did intend to come back! also if the game is definatly ended (result can not be changed by any of the possible moves left) this could be a possible candidate for a game that should not be able to use any vacation days ... 2002-08-13 Hjallti In fact I'm just posting to get this discussion again on the first page. Anyway I think the suggestion of deciding tournaments early (if the winner is certain however the remaining games end) is at least one nobody objects.... (At IYT I'm still playing double game is round3 of tournament that is finished in 4 rounds..., I guess there are plenty examples here.) 2002-08-13 klaashaas So these are the suggestions so far: [1] declare (round)winner once a player cannot be overtaken [2] auto pass [3] optional auto-play for forced move (forced move, the puter won't play moves if there is ANY intelligence or decision making involded) [4] vacationdays need to be earned _________ I wonder what Richard's view is on these suggestions and if he's planning to implement one or more of them. 2002-08-14 Bill Malloy I'd vote for the ability to submit a list of moves--The list of my moves would be used automatically as long as I correctly predict my opponent's response to a move I make. It doesn't vother me that an opponent might miss an opportunity for a mistake by using such a mechanism. Although I prefer the Little Golem pace to having to commit larger blocks of time to play on IGS, the slower pace can be maddening in certain situations. There is an option for notification for e-mail in one's profile. This might be augmented to include notification via instant messaging. In some situations this could let two players get in a few more moves during a coincidental period in which they are both logged on. 2002-08-14 Hjallti I don't see the latter point, but it could be. Another way to stimulate games when both are online could be the following... In the order of games to play, set first most recently moved, whenever it was moved in the last half hour. As I'm playing a lot of games, and taking my time at some, it would indeed stimulate the game. 2002-08-16 Bill Malloy The latter point is that with a messaging system you get a pop-up notification immediately. My mail system, at least, doesn't do that. It might be several minutes between attempts by me to poll the e-mail system. Also, e-mail delivery isn't always immediate. I've seen several-minute delays when I send e-mail to myself. When I have an AIM window open, notifications are within seconds and include an audible alert. 2002-08-19 Hjallti I see, you mean using ICQ, or MSN or something alike... Why do you wait for any emails anyway... just refresh your browser page, or so... 2010-07-30 Hjallti here is another one 2010-07-30 slaapgraag Hjaltti, nothing wrong with your memory, but practise on your patience... 2010-07-30 pfapfap I don't mind seeing the previous discussions on the subject. 2010-07-30 FatPhil I've not seen this thread before. "The latter point is that with a messaging system you get a pop-up notification immediately." Just plain false - an absurd generalisation based on limited experience of a few clients on a very restricted range of operating systems and architectures (I'm guessing 1 OS and 1 architecture). And before anyone asks, I work with Jarkko Oikarinen. And I still use his 1980s creation daily. 2010-08-02 Hjallti I don't see your point at all slaapgraag... first of all I apparently been patience for 8 years, moreover I just bump this because it gave much more information that the other thread I bumped, since it has more suggestions than the one that was resuggested in the other thread, so it would help discussion. I suppose there would be some other thread throughout the years about this... maybe someone could start a new topic with much more structure about this, than this could be helpful... 2010-08-02 klaashaas I think slaapgraag was making a joke in stead of trying to get a point across. (at least it made me laugh :-) 2010-08-02 slaapgraag thx, klaashaas! (BTW: optional playing of forced moves sounds OK) 2010-08-02 Hjallti okay, I missed it... tireness and talking in third language... :oQ 2010-08-02 slaapgraag pas de probleme 2010-08-02 Hjallti Zeg, en nu mijn tweede taal proberen, zeker.... :-) ... while we share our mothertongue...

Reply to this topic