Utilizing server flaws in team tournament General forum

23 replies. Last post: 2004-10-06

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Utilizing server flaws in team tournament
  • Tore S at 2004-10-05

    In my game against Cutt I have a lost game, but it is abit annoying when he is utilizing a known server flaw in <a href=http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=234107> this position.

    I really dont know how to deal with this...
    Until his last move Cutt has played a very solid defence, but blocking me in the corner with the ball I feel is off the rules. With a two on the die I had hoped I could place my player next to the post, but the server will not let me.

    I know the game was lost already, but I dont like the match to be decided by a server flaw and need an advice from the directors colloquium on how to handle this.

  • FC Schalke 05 at 2004-10-05

    Tore,

    as far as I can see You refer to this rule: "You may not around the ball so that the opponent can not reach the ball. This rule is not implemented."

    According to the text the situation is legal. You can reach the ball. We should ask FC Cwali about the idea of the rule.

    What do You, Cutt, and others mean?

  • Tore S at 2004-10-05

    Problem is I cannot move out of the field to force him to open up.

  • FC Schalke 05 at 2004-10-05

    You can – but You need two moves. That’s not defined in the rules.

    And You can play the ball out in two moves.

  • Ronald Lokers at 2004-10-05

    Tore, it’s a known flaw, and there’s not much we can do about it. If I would have been the site’s programmer, I could have tried to fix it but I’m not and it’s the way it’s programmed over here. It sucks but we just have to learn to live with it. Perhaps next time you’ll be the one to take advantage of it.

  • Tore S at 2004-10-06

    I would not care too much in an ordinary game, but here my team result is on stake....

    What is really annoying is that it is impossible to break out of this, since I cannot force my opponnent to break the block by moving outside the field.

    And no! I would not put my players in this position.

  • Marius Halsor at 2004-10-06

    Tore: Just move up more men higher on the field. When you get an even number (2,4 or 6), move outside the field. That forces your opponent to break the block, and you will have many men in an attacking position, giving you a good chance of scoring.

    Marius

  • Michael Engels at 2004-10-06

    What’s the problem? This position is not against the rules. You can reach the ball and kick it out of this “blockade” in a few moves. Yeah, this would take more moves than you have left, and the position is boring (but you had a chance earlier in the game to don’t let this happen). But I see no reason to start whining now. Just accept that you will loose this game and beat him high in your next match against him ;)

  • Tore S at 2004-10-06

    I was afraid of this answer, and yes, I am whining:(

    To Marius: I do have a 2 on the die, but the server will not allow me to move outside the field and that is the main problem.

    And as I said earlier. I would not bother so much if this was not in the team event. In fact I have had similar positions earlier.

    I know I have a lost position and I have had for awhile, but I dont like that the loss is made inevitable by a server flaw.

  • Marius Halsor at 2004-10-06

    Why can’t you move outside the field if you have a 2 on the die?

  • Orbilin at 2004-10-06

    You say “With a two on the die I had hoped I could place my player next to the post, but the server will not let me.”

    But you have a five on the die. If you had a two, I’m sure you could. So reducing the possibility to free the ball might be a useful tactic to gain time.

    Unfortunately Ronalds suggestion made earlier to move your man outside is not possible here, as you can only step over side lines.

    I stick to my earlier suggestion for a rule to disallow completely blocking freeing the ball:

    "It is forbidden to create a situation where it is impossible for the opponent to score (even if he were allowed to play move after move without time constraints and choosing the die results, without the first player moving in between).
    If an opponent creates such a situation (it’s impossible to know if it is by accident or malicious intent), you should inform him of the violation in a message INCLUDED with your next move (so anyone can read it who looks up that move). If after receiving such a move-with-message he does not correct the situation with his next move, he forfeits the game.

    Inform a tournament official when these conditions have met, wait for confirmation, and then resign the game. In the Team Tournament it will mean a result of 10-0 against the violator. "

  • Marius Halsor at 2004-10-06

    The situation in question would not be a violation of your rules, Orbilin.

  • Mister_Marty at 2004-10-06

    According to Corne there are 3 existing rule (program) lacks which don’t match the official rules of StreetSoccer:

    1) You can’t use the 2 spaces behind the end-line aside the goal. (That’s why Tore can’t move outside the field in this example!!!)

    2) You can shift to a space in the penalty area when
    you kick the ball away from the spaces in front of your goal with an outfielder, when another of your outfielders is in the other space in your penalty area.

    3) You are able to create illegal blockades.

  • Mister_Marty at 2004-10-06

    I think we all should come up with an uniform solution regarding the illegal blockades.

  • Tore S at 2004-10-06

    I DO have a 2. The 5 you see is most likely Cutt’s last roll which was a 5.

    With a 2 on the die I can click on my player inside the block and the only possible move is to hit the ball.

    I guess the reason why it is so is because if I move outside the field the position would be illegal as the ball is blocked by red.

  • Mister_Marty at 2004-10-06

    @Tore

    Re: I guess the reason why it is so is because if I move outside the field the position would be illegal as the ball is blocked by red.

    No, this is because 1 of the 3 programm flaws (see above)
    The two spaces which are just outside the field next to the goalposts should be able to use but here on LittleGolem they are not.

  • Tore S at 2004-10-06

    I think Orbilins suggestion is good, but it should not be used against Cutt in this game.

    I think the best solution in this game is that Richard rolls the game back to before Cutt’s last move and let him have the possibility to make another move.

    I am losing the game and that happened long before this situation arose.

  • Cutt at 2004-10-06

    Well, in fact I don’t think I’m breaking the rules, because he is not really blocked...
    1-He can move the player and shoot the ball
    2-Ball has a way to go out of my defensive position. You need two movements to do so.Other thing it would be that he couldn’t shoot the ball out because I block any chance of scaping.
    I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong, but if I have broken the rules I accept any consequences it may carry.

  • Cutt at 2004-10-06

    And if I’m going against rules, is it possible to ask to repeat my movement? just go back one move in the server?
    that way Tore and I will finish a very interesting match...

  • Orbilin at 2004-10-06

    I agree that Cutt is not violating the rules, even with my amendment. The situation is perfectly legitimate.

    And if you have a two and you can click the captive player and click the ball, and you cannot click next to the post, that IS a flaw.

    I’m against a rollback, as the moves are all OK. I would ask Richard to roll forward where you would have made the move you want to make, but it would gain you nothing.

    Richard, please correct this flaw, so we don’t have to ask you this when it could make a difference.

  • Tore S at 2004-10-06

    Sorry guys. I have reread the rules and I have come to the same conclusion as most of you. The position is not illegal.

    I own the board game and have played it alot. When playing the board game we have used the rule in a way that this position is not legal since it isolates the ball from the rest of the board even with a player inside the isolated area.

    My personal opinion i that this is the most effective anti-kill joy rule, but it is not the way it is stated.

    I am wrong and owe my apologies to Cutt who have a well deserved victory in our game.

  • Cutt at 2004-10-06

    Well, I am going to be my own devil’s advocate...

    Could it be possible a new rule in which...

    Any player able to reach the ball can throw it the maximum number of squares he is allowed by the dice.

    That implies that at least a defender should leave one direct way for the ball to escape.

    The only thing that will not allow this rule is this blocking matter...and with this rule, if approved, my movement would be illegal.

  • Cutt at 2004-10-06

    of course for future matches

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