FINAL RULES

I - Committe

(1) Mojmir Hanes

(2) Hoodiers

(3) Looser

II - Nomenclature

match - is between two teams;

game - is between two players in the match;

score - means 5-points scheme used here on littlegolem (in the game between players);

result - sum of all scores in games batween players in the match;

points - are obtained by team, depend on the result of the match;

III – Team Registration

(1) Registration is open till 31st of January (to register team after this date please contact with one of the member of Committe, each case will be examined individually);

(2) Each team 'should' consist of 4 players from the same country (but it is possible to register mixed 5-player team if necessary);

(3) Each team should have a captain;

(4) Captain is responsible for:

- contact with a Committe (discussing, argueing, …);

- providing information about substitution;

- supervising his team's games started correctly (as some games will be played as 'away' and the others as 'home');

(5) One substitution is allowed but only between matches, means that if one player started his games in one match it is not possible to substitute him if he withdraws;

IV - Drawing

(1) Teams will be grouped into 4-team group (or 5- if necessary);

(2) Drawing teams will be performed based on the mean rank of whole team (rank will be read on the 5th of Febrauary);

(3) Teams will be set to the baskets, then using snake system (explained by quartastella in Team Tournament thread) will be grouped;

(4) Drawing will be performed in the way to avoid same country teams in the same group;

V - In the group

(1) In the group each team plays match with each team (in 4-team group it will be 3 matches for the team, in 5-team group it will be 4 matches);

(2) In the match each player from one team plays game with each player from the opponent's team (it will be 4 games per player in the match);

(3) Exceptions for 5-player team to the paragraph (2):

a) In match between 4-player and 5-player teams: one player (different in each match) plays 4 games and the rest of the players play 3 games;

b) In match between 5-player and 5-player teams: the same as above (pairing games will be performed by the Committe – you need to trust us);

(4) In the game standard (on littlegolem) 5-point scheme of scoring is used to obtain the result of the match;

(5) In the match 3pt-1pt-0pt scheme is used:

a) 3pt – for a win in the match

b) 1pt – for a draw in the match

c) 0pt – for a lost in the match

(6) Position in the group is determined by (1)points, (2)total scores difference, (3) higher goals scored, (4)the result/s between interested teams;

VI - Preliminary & next rounds

(1) The schedule looks: preliminary (groups), 1/8, quarterfinal, semifinal, final/3rd_place

(2) To 1/8 round promotion obtains 16 teams;

(3) Depending on how many teams sign in and how groups will be looked like, from each group promotion obtains 2 teams and if necessary the best teams of the 3rd places;

(4) Starting from 1/8 round knockout round will be used;

(5) After preliminary round promoted teams will be grouped into two baskets based on theirs places in the preliminary, then will be paired;

VII – Others

(1) 10:0 penalty is used for resignation or loosing the game on time;

(2) In the whole tournament one player may play only in one team;

(3) Matches will be started in phases with interval time 10 days;

(4) 1st phase of matches starts 10th of February, 2nd starts 20th of February and so on;

(5) After the drawing schedule about the 1st phase of matches and games in the matches will be provided to the captains (in the message there will be information who should invite who and as 'away' or as 'home');

First of all, thank you guys for taking the time to prepare this. I know you FIFA guys are well paid to organize these tournaments, but thanks anyway.

I would like a clarification on point 3.2.

“(2) Each team 'should' consist of 4 players from the same country (but it is possible to register mixed 5-player team if necessary);”

Both the Spanish and Italian teams had brought out the issue of making a team with 5 players. We (the Italians) did this because we had nine players and everyone wished to represent Italy. Even though we didn't vote on it, it was my understanding that teams of five players from the same nation were acceptable if the need did arise (exactly as it was the case in SST2, I believe). Is this still the case or only “mixed 5-player teams” are allowed?

We need to know this as soon as possible because we just registered a team of five and we would need to find a solution for our fifth player so that he doesn't miss out on the tournament.

Thank you

quartastella, You're right. This point is unclear. It should be divided into two points: (1)It is allowed to register 5-player teams; (2)It is allowed to register mixed teams (4- or 5-player);

Or simply change

Each team 'should' consist of 4 players from the same country (but it is possible to register mixed 5-player team if necessary)

to

Each team 'should' consist of 4 players from the same country, however it is possible to register 5-player team - either from the same country or mixed

Regarding IV (Drawing) 2: do yo mean rank ( 1st to 816th ) or rating (1990 to 1148, currently) ? (Rating is easier to see)

I understand even a 4 player team can have players with different flags.

Can such a team claim to have a certain nationality, for grouping according to IV 4?

(In our specific case: Does Mojmir have to choose a German flag for the SSTT3 ? I registered our team D-BMMB as German, in case we prefer to meet one of the other German teams in the Final only ;)

Well, drawing will be performed based on mean rating of teammates.

According to your question about team nationality, well in my opinion this is a mixed team and should be treated as mixed team. But we will discuss this issue with Mojmir and hoodiers, then put the answer on the forum.

Because there will be matches between 4- and 5-player teams or between 5- and 5-player teams that's why Committe decided for such a scheme of games between players in those matches.

5x4

A1 – B1

A1 – B2

A1 – B3

A1 – B4

A2 – B2

A2 – B3

A2 – B4

A3 – B1

A3 – B3

A3 – B4

A4 – B1

A4 – B2

A4 – B4

A5 – B1

A5 – B2

A5 – B3

5x5

A1 - B1

A1 - B2

A1 - B3

A1 - B4

A2 - B3

A2 - B4

A2 - B5

A3 - B1

A3 - B4

A3 - B5

A4 - B1

A4 - B2

A4 - B5

A5 - B1

A5 - B2

A5 - B3

That's why before the drawing I need from captains that they will number players in their teams, like:

As a captain in the team Poland A:

A1 - Looser

A2 - p_a_k_o

A3 - saw

A4 - Krzysztof(Chris)

I need these information till Friday noon. Please, send me them for a PM message. After 12am players in teams will be numbered as they are formed a sequence in the Registration thread, for example team USA C:

A1 - Dvd Avins

A2 - Dustin

A3 - Aganju

A4 - KPT

A5 - MarleysGhost

Committe decided that almost national teams will not be treated in sepcial way but as a mixed teams. I means USA C & D-BMMB and if the fate decides they will be drawed to the group with other American or German teams.

Me and hoodiers voted for this solution. Mojmir's vote would not have been important then even if his decision would be opposite. I hope you understand our decision.

Sirs, while I don't dispute the Committee decision, I must most humbly protest the application of this decision to USA Team C-. Team C- is 80% US citizens and 20% aliens, which is just like the real United States of America. Team USA C- should be treated like the other teams from the USA and not as a mixed team. (KPT is no ringer, anyway.)

I'm sending Italia B's lineup as a PM.

I have a question. Since rule V section (a) reads “In match between 4-player and 5-player teams: one player (different in each match) plays 4 games and the rest of the players play 3 games,” does that mean that we have to submit a different lineup for each game (making sure A1 is not the same player all the times) or is player A1 rotated by the committee for each game?

Just for info - I didn't vote in the question regarding national teams - I find it unethical to vote when the final decision has influence on me.

MarleyGhost: please keep in mind there is no perfect solution - if Committee would have agreed to take this case into account for drawing, someone else could have complained as well. What about just taking it not toooo serious and looking forward to play interesting games and have fun ? :-)

Cheers

Well, Mojmir applied for playing with any of the German speaking teams. (He applied in German language in the “Deutsche Teams” thread). The German teams were formed rather random.

If nationality does make any difference, the three German teams should be handled as such. Of course Mojmir is integral member of a German team, unless he protests. (Probably you find it unethical to protest and thus influence a decision, Mojmir ;)

On the other side, I fully understand and accept Mojmir's comment to MarleysGhost. I guess Marley's protest is his way of taking it not toooo serious.

By the way, my wish to meet other German teams in the final only, is also true for Marley's team: Hope to meet them in the final ;)

@Mojmir, Nechci prodluzovat debatu s soudcem. Mam soucit se slepymi.

Paklize moje zadost jest zamitmuta, tak jest zamitmuta. Mam soucit s hluchymi.

@Michael, Gerne, hoffentlich.

For the record, KPT has now an American flag in his profile :)

Re: Choosing flag.

That's what I suggested to Mojmir, as well.

Only in case Looser and Hoodiers do not feel offended by a bad trick.

And only in case Mojmir does not feel offended neither. (Which is not the case, if I may reveal a personal message.)

@Marley: Yes, just closing the debate is not a bad idea in this case.

Remember, a deaf dumb and blind kid can sure play a mean pin ball !

@quartastella, yes I think it's not a problem if you change the order of players between phases. But of course we need those information before next phase/match will start, minimum couplse days before.

@Marleys, you said your is 20% alien? Well, we have to discuss with hoodiers and Mojmir what to do with you guys then. Everybody knows that extraterrestrial technology is more advanced than ours - little people from Earth. :)

@Michael X, choosing flag may be a good idea. I asked members of Committe what to do in such case, but till now I didn't obtain the answer. Hope tomorrow will be all clear. I think in such case we may treat your teams as national all the more because some teams are national but I don't know if all players are from that countries like Switzerland team where are Manou who now has a Swiss flag but had Spanish before, or manolsson also with a Swiss flag but had Icelandish before. So I think it will be fair to treat teams based on flags :)

Now we have 30 teams registered (but USA D has to give me a message what should I do with its line-up) Hope there will be 32 registered till tomorrow and SSTT will look like a real World Cup. I'm doing everything what I can do to gather more teams (look at singleton players thread) We need one player more. I think today somebody answers me. (I'm counting on ZZmiy from Belarus who is in Russian team but I don't think that team will register)

Cheers

Piotr aka Looser

OK then. Committe decided that if KPT and Mojmir changes their flags to American and German flags respectively, we will treat those teams as national. Decision is made by me and hoodiers, Mojmir abstained from voting.

Just a question: what do you mean by “invite player … as I Am”?

Thanks.

When you send an invitation, (and you have already chosen who to invite),

there are three things to choose:

1) First player: ( I am / You are )

2) Game type: what game to play

3) Message (optional)

Just lave the “I am” as it is :)

You will be the first to play (Yellow coloured in StreetSoccer) in the game when it starts.

thanks :)

Question: we have several games that have not started; I believe we have sent all the needed invitations, but some players from the other teams have not responded or have not sent any invitation to us. What is the procedure at this point?

I think the time limit was to start before February 20th, if I'm not wrong. I think we should wait until then.

Yes, I understand, but isn't the deadline to start phase one games February 20th or am I not understanding the schedule properly? It looks to me that some people are not clear on what to do: for example one of our opponents has accepted one invitation but has not sent any. Does the committee contact the captains or do the captains have to contact the other captains? Or we do nothing until February 20th? What was done in SST2?

IMO, Everybody can send the desired opponent a message, and ask if there are any problems. If it's your opponent's strategy to make you nervous, he's happy to see his strategy working. If there are problems, he's happy as well.

Or you can invite him/her with “First player: You are” and a message with the invitation. (With the same implications as above).

Or you can simply wait.

Minimally, on 20th-Feb, you should inform your Captain. But I think, anything more direct is welcome.

I invited two of the “missing” players with first move “You are” and sent them a note with the invitation that this was about SSTT3. Worked like a charm.

You are both right but I would be afraid the “non-responding” players would then decide to accept both invitations (I am and You are) creating a ton of confusion on which game count.

I was just wondering if there was an accepted procedure from SST2 in order not to create even more confusion.

I am also wondering: is Feb 20th a DEADLINE to start a game? I am asking for two reasons:

1. I think we want to avoid forfeits as much as possible since we want to have fun more than wins, but there has to be some kind of limit or players will just do whatever they want.

2. If it is, shouldn't we have some step in process BEFORE then for games that don't start?

@quartastella, well the Committe will discuss this issue soon. The intention was that all games of 1st phase will start till 20th Februarybut but we have to realize that some of the players are on vacation or plan to go on. Well for now only 3 players didn't start any of their games (bobibird, Hollo and Calle), day a day more games starts so the situation doesn't look bad. I agree we should avoid of forfeiting. As soon as the Committe decides we'll let you know.

Great. And one of the missing players in our games finally showed up so even better.

The Committe decided to add one rule:

VII - Others

(6)every game (in round/phase) should start no late than one month after official begin of that round/phase;

If someone is not able to fulfill this time limit, he can contact capitain of the opponent team and ask him to postpone game or contact committee; If first player (starting the game) will not start in the defined period, nor contact capitain/committee, he loses game 10:0;

Committe, could you please confirm rule

VI (5) After preliminary round promoted teams will be grouped into two baskets based on theirs places in the preliminary, then will be paired

is simply the scheme used e.g. for the world cup

(with different time schedule ;)

“VII - Others

(1) 10:0 penalty is used for resignation or loosing the game on time; "

resignation

points added for the winner to total points on the results page: 5

10:0 means Cristi (and your team) gets 10-0 in the goals from this game, instead of the 6-3 they would get if Superstring hadn't resigned.

The points you get are still 5.

In case anyone's interested, “loosing the game” should of course be “losing the game”. Normally I would not be so impolite as to point out others' spelling mistakes, but this one is starting to rankle me.

“lose” rhymes with brews, booze and cruise. It's the opposite of “win”.

“loose” rhymes with Bruce, goose and truce. It's the opposite of “tight”.

This is one of the many traps where English spelling and pronunciation go off the rails. Enuf sed. :)

@ALL, we decided to use this scheme, mentioned earlier by Michael X, to pairing teams in the next rounds.

the Committe

In Group 8 between Germany and France the satnd is 25-15 for German BSW, but in the schedule stand 25-15 for France.

Hallo Marc,

I think results are displayed correctly (France - German-BSW 15:25, eg France 15 gamepoints, German-BSW 25 gamepoints)

Am I missing something ?

Gru¨sse :-)

Mojmir

by the time Marc posted, the results we shown as 15:15 because two matches were not updated yet. now are. the moral is patience :)

[..]the results *were* shown[…]

I see.

At the very bottom of the page is time, when the last update was done.

Good luck in SSTT3

Can someone please clarify Section V Article 6?

Group position is first determined by points, then if that is tied, we look at “total scores difference”.

What is this exactly? Is it difference between Game scores (e.g. awarded 5 points for a regulation time win, zero for a loss regardless of the number of goals), or is it goal difference (goals scored minus goals allowed compared between the tied teams). I would think it would be game scores, but the third tiebreak is goals scored, which is distinct from goal difference, so I am not sure.

@David Scott

I had the same doubt, but I would say it's the difference in game scores (the 5 points awarded), because Section V, article 4 states:

“(4) In the game standard (on littlegolem) 5-point scheme of scoring is used to obtain the result of the match; "

And that's the only use of “scoring” I've seen in the rules.

What happens if a match ends 40-40 in the playoffs?

I don't see the rules clarifying this matter.

I would guess an extrapolation of

V(6) Position in the group is determined by (1)points, (2)total scores difference, (3) higher goals scored, (4)the result/s between interested teams;

to

Winner of a playoff match is determined by (1) points, (2) higher goals scored, (3) some unknown tiebreaker after goals

But we shouldn't have to guess.

@Looser: Where are you, oh, sstt master?

Sorry guys, I'm on vacation :]

But first points, then higher goals scored will be good I think.

And you tell us now?

I wouldn't have let Calle beat me with 7-2 if I knew …

We are out with a draw, either way. I do not think it is fair, though. Especially because the rules were not clear (and they are still not clear).

I believe there should be an extra match between two players each team delegate for a final, decisive dogfight. That would be more fair for both sides.

Well, why do we then have the “goals” column? Not even speaking about the 10:0 penalty… I think the goal criteria is fair, because it assumes (much better than an extra match of only two players) the work of whole team - which is, according to my opinion, the basic principle of SSTT.

WWS vs CZ+S

40:40 in points

39:36 in goals scored at the moment

but

there are 2 games 0:10* resignation

and now we have

38:49

Someone nead to close look on rules :)

All right, I have read carefully all paragraphs and points in the Rules. There is no word on how to deal with cases when match points are a draw (40-40, obviously) and the goal difference is zero – another draw.

Even if Marleys Ghost's extrapolation from

“V(6) Position in the group is determined by (1)points, (2)total scores difference, (3) higher goals scored, (4)the result/s between interested teams;”

to

“V(7) Winner of a playoff match is determined by (1) points, (2) higher goals scored, (3) some unknown tiebreaker after goals …”

is observed, we do not have an a priori formulated rule on this. We cannot abide an unknown tiebreaker – no rule fabricated after a tough case evolves in real life should apply retroactively.

So what next?

(1) Even though I personally favor the idea that the lower ranked team (with a lower mean rating as of February 5, 2010) should advance, this would be another retroactive rule fabrication.

(2) Both teams should advance and play three matches in a group with the third team that is supposedly waiting for us in the quarterfinal. This would, of course, be seen as a retoractive rule fabrication for this third team.

I have no solution – any lawyers here?

Any arbitrary rule wouldnt be much better than throwing a coin. I suggest, that one last game would be hold (panelty kicks^^) between two players, which can be chosen by the teams. To make it more exciting for us (and to decide this quickly), they could agree on a time slot of one hour in which this game will be played, and everybody can watch. ;)

Nice idea :D It would be interesting :D

But still we nead to wait for finishing goal or last move then we can solve the problem if it will appear :P

Interesting situation!

Rules can be changed retroactively only if the majority votes this way or another, right? Without a majority vote the rule change cannot be legitimate, right? Thus, I propose that the captains of the 30 original teams have a vote on three alternatives.

These are, in a decreasing order of fairness:

(1) Both teams advance to play in a group of three teams.

(2) Two players from each team are selected by the team to play it out within 60 minutes real time, including the possible extra time after 52 moves.

(3) Sudden death: the two players from each team play until the first goal.

I propose a fourth method. We could also break the tie as is done in tournaments, on the basis of Son. If we calculate Son for the USA A / Hungary match as is done in a tournament, then in the event that Steven Pedlow defeats FC Malaj 4:1, the players would have the following Son:

SP 189

Ph 68

st 36

RG 77

Total Son for USA A: 370

Ho 98

FC 89

Ch 48

Re 49

Total Son for Hungary: 284

Someone should kindly check my calculations, as I just did them on the back of an envelope.

This fourth method does not differ from other a posteriori solutions in that the teams and their players were not in the knowledge of this proposed rule when they played their games.

In other words, only those solutions would be fair that do not allow reinterpretations of already existing results. Incidentally, this is the way our Cosmo team was eliminated…

In any case, all four alternatives could well be considered for future tournaments, but not now.

(1) Both teams advance to play in a group of three teams.

Seems to me a bit unfair for the third opponent, who has to win against two teams instead of one.

(2) Two players from each team are selected by the team to play it out within 60 minutes real time, including the possible extra time after 52 moves.

My favourite, except for the 60 minutes real time. It's the closest thing to “penalties”. I like the “the team chooses their best player as their last resort”-vibe and the excitement involved in the final duel.

(3) Sudden death: the two players from each team play until the first goal.

Nah. Too much luck involved. 6 - 1 - 6 early in the game defeats almost any player. :P

(4) Son

I never got Son in the first place. It's some obscure magic. ;)

(2) is clearly my favorite :)

(2) (60 minutes realtime) is completely against the spirit of LG with 240h + 20 (or 30) vacation days between 2 moves.

Having said that: It's my favorite, too, being aware of time zone issues.

The refferre committe should log the event in a forum thread in real time.

(3) Too much luck ? I'd rather suggest the first dice numbers decide (or the first pairs) until there's a difference). Or committe flips a coin.

Voting is fun, but completely against the spirit of soccer.

The committe should notice that the sophisticated draw rule (if there's a draw in points and goals, the higher number decides ;) does not apply after the preliminary round.

The committe has to decide and will be blamed for any decision.

Setting rules afterwards is not necessarily unfair: Would it have affected the strategy or tactics of any player, if a different rule were in effect from the beginning? However, any new rule smells, if the outcome is decided already when publishing that rule.

But, should we hope that FC Malaj misses his current opportunity (after move 56) just to have more fun and see what happens?

I have another proposal, not a retroactive rule but a rule for the future:

(5) Any team that is lower ranked as of the start of a tournament will advance if its match against the higher ranked opponent is a draw in match points and the goal difference is zero (another draw).

And my vote goes for this alternative, if it is applied in the future. I am always in favor of supporting the underdog.

and how about considering previous results in the tournament? points - goal difference - scored goals: the better team advances. I am against (1) and (5). (2) could lead to another draw with the possibility of a 0:0. So better do it with 3 games.

In table tennis, if there is complete equality, they choose randomly a team or a player that advances to the next group (but equality in match points, set points and points is almost never the same). Here it's the same thing too, I guess that happens not very much, like in street soccer too I guess. So imho the best rule is that the worse rated team advances to the next round, it's more transparent than choosing a team randomly.

In a game where teams are that equal, playing more games is probably decided by the dice and therefore throwing a coin would be almost the same, just much faster.

Btw When starts the next round?