Seki points Go forum

8 replies. Last post: 2015-06-21

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Seki points
  • mmKALLL ★ at 2015-06-14

    Now, I know LG uses Japanese scoring, but I came across an interesting formation I wasn’t entirely sure of in this game:http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1701459&nmove=61
    The upper right is clearly a seki position, but does black get one point in situations like this under Japanese rules? What about seki in Chinese scoring?

  • mmKALLL ★ at 2015-06-14

    Ugh, being able to edit posts would be really nice...

  • gamesorry at 2015-06-14

    Regarding the eyes, neither black nor white gets one point in situations like this under Japanese rule, while both black and white get one point in Chinese scoring.

    Reference: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Seki

  • erratic at 2015-06-14

    I am not a rule exceptions expert, but the score looks correct to me. J9 is a point for black under any definition: It is surrounded by living stones of the same color and it IS an eye since white cannot play at h8. If white would have identified the shape earlier (which btw is common shape) he would have played at h8 when he still could and in that case J9 would not have been an eye. It is an eye only because h8 is not playable anymore.

    Ergo, B+54.5 is correct imo.

  • erratic at 2015-06-14

    After j6, white had to play inside his territory to avoid the trick (losing 1 point instead of losing 7). Even better would have been playing g9 at g8. An even better resigning 25 moves before. ;-)

  • mmKALLL ★ at 2015-06-15

    Unless LG uses some variation of Territory Scoring, shouldn’t this be considered a bug, then? I mean, I guess it kinda doesn’t matter due to the purpose of the site, but the off-chance of having to deal with something like this feels like something to be fixed.
    erratic, under Japanese rules the groups sharing the seki’s dame don’t make points (as far as I know, I’m no expert either – see e.g. http://senseis.xmp.net/?SekiWithEyesQuestion1 ).

  • erratic at 2015-06-15

    Ok. You are right in Japanese rules eyes in seki do not count. The score is still right but because both sides have 1 eye. In all other rulesets eyes in seki do count (http://www.britgo.org/rules/compare.html) My mistake.

  • xed_over at 2015-06-21

    I imagine the problem is that there is no way to mark the stones as alive in seki without awarding the points. Of course as erratic says, it doesn’t change the score (the score being the difference in points, not the points themselves). Each player gets an extra point, the difference is still the same as if they didn’t.

    If you click on the stones, they will be marked (incorrectly) as dead, and all the points given to the other player. And you can’t mark as dead both groups.

    The server was not written in such a way to properly identify seki positions (its a hard thing to do, even for people). It solely relies on the players to agree upon and mark dead positions.

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