Sportmanship Question: what would you all do here? TWIXT PP
11 replies. Last post: 2015-07-02Reply to this topic Return to forum
D Crowe at 2015-07-01
Game #1716372 my opponent made a bad move on his iPhone and meant to move to L.8, not
K.8. He would like me to make my move, he resigns, and then I ask for a draw. I had predicted
that he would make the L.8 and had a strategy made around that. That said, now that doesn’t
work out so well. I guess I could make a bad move, not the winning move, and proceed as asked.
But I am also from the school of thought that games of this caliber are won/lost on mistakes of
opponents and I should go for the “kill”. I’ve never played on a iPhone and don’t have anyway to
know how the game works on that device. Is it not the same as on a desktop, laptop, tablet or Ipad
where you “see” the move you’ve made before hitting the “submit” button? If it’s different then perhaps the
sporting thing to do is what he asks. But being on the horns of the dilemma I’d really appreciate any input
that you other twixt players have on this and then take that into very high consideration before moving.
Loony at 2015-07-01
Alright, I encountered this dilemma in past games as well.
Personally I suggest starting an unrated game, copy the sequence of moves up to the position after 15.L9, play that out and after finishing apply the unrated game’s result in the form of according resign in the infinity tournament game. This approach sounds a lot fairer to me than to agree about a draw. In case of time out issues in the original game you can just play random moves ; they don’t count anyway if you agree to this.
Anyway, you are not obliged to follow this. I know players who would just take the win in any case, and others who would agree to a draw or similar things. In my opinion none of these procedures could be considered bad sportsmanship.
Oh, not that it matters but the way I deal with issues like this: I would take the win unless I play against a friend or a player I know well enough. I know it’s not consistent. :)
D Crowe at 2015-07-01
Loony, thanks for taking the time to respond with your ideas. On the unrated game are you saying play that out once you get to the point where the bad move was made, and then if I win the unrated game from that point then he would resign the rated game?
Loony at 2015-07-01
Yes, the idea is that he can play the move he actually wanted to play in 16th and after that you play it out. Whoever loses the unrated game resigns the rated game then.
Tony at 2015-07-01
Why would sportsmanship be important here? Why would winning or losing be important? From the introductory note to the Kiseido Go server I remember a proverb: “Don't get obsessed with ratings”. The beauty and the excitement of the game consists to some extend in not making mistakes. So I would say the game has come to an end when one of the players admits to have made a mistake, for any reason. I would never ask for a draw if I made a mistake myself, even if it was merely a misclick, instead I would apologize and resign. It might be a good suggestion to offer a replay for analysis purposes. But first I would recommend claiming victory. Feel free to disagree... ;-)
ypercube ★ at 2015-07-01
I agree with Tony. I’ve lost games on misclicks, timeouts and various other reasons not related to (what I consider) my real strength. It’s disappoining when it happens but I never asked for a draw or for my opponent to resign. And I don’t remember any of my opponents asking for a draw when it happened to them.
.In my opinion, winning the game is fair in this case. The suggestion to offer another unrated game for analysis is also good.
Marius Halsor at 2015-07-02
I agree with Ypercube. I’d never ask my opponent to make up for my mistake. If the game was particularly interesting, though, I might ask that after I resign, we start an unrated game to see what would have happened if I hadn’t made the mistake.
Richard Moxham at 2015-07-02
I agree that (except perhaps in the professional sphere or high-level tournament play) winning and losing should matter less than the stimulation and fellowship of simply playing. But Tony’s observation that "the beauty and the excitement of the game consists to some exten[t] in not making mistakes" seems to me not quite to meet the case cited by the OP. For there is more than one kind of “mistake”. A misclick on a phone keypad is usually a failure of dexterity, and dexterity is not one of the skills which any of the games on this site seeks to test. Admittedly it then comes down to whether you trust your opponent’s account of his intentions, but that’s a separate matter.
At a slight tangent, but for similar reasons, it always seems to me stupid that golf retains the possibility of outcomes being reversed by the signature on an incorrectly completed card, when - certainly at the big tournaments – organisers nowadays have access to infallible knowledge of the true scores.
EmTom at 2015-07-02
Everyone is equal in terms of choosing input device for LG. Missclicks happen. One just has to live with it. It’s a part of the experience. Exactly the same as a score card in golf mentioned by Richard. It’s as if you calculated wrong result in GO tournament (which I saw at least a couple of times in live tournaments). It is a part of the game so it can influence the result. And since there’s no real value behind LG games except for emotional one there’s really no sense to try changing the result. It’s usually better to start a new game instead. :)
Florian Jamain at 2015-07-02
Excuse me but... do you know that on LG even on phone you have to “send” your move?
If you want to play “k15” in TwixT, it is written “k15 send” ?So when you missclicked it is written maybe “j15 send” just don’t do it... it happens to me maybe 500 times, and I just changed my move before sending it.
Richard Moxham at 2015-07-02
Okay, Florian, thank you for the correction. This is obviously a decisive answer to my point as regards the original post.
I was interested by EmTom’s analogy, though. I don’t play Go, so I may have misunderstood, but is the point here that the game can be over and you miscalculate the scores, and once you’ve agreed the erroneous result in whatever formal way is customary, then that’s binding - even if the error has been noticed by others and could be quickly, easily and objectively corrected?
If so, I’d call that a regrettable state of affairs. I’m not saying that rules should not be universally and impartially applied once they exist – of course they should. But there is such a thing as a bad rule, and unnecessary rules are bad ones almost by definition. To return to the example of golf because it’s pretty straightforward (and perhaps a simpler calculation than Go): the totting-up of scores can be made “part of the game” by enshrining that in a rule, but it isn’t naturally so. It doesn’t appear much less absurd, actually, than saying that if you don’t turn up in a top hat to the presentation ceremony your victory is null and void. Why not retain the possibility for someone (whoever) to say “Hey, you shot a four on the sixth, not a five,” and for the total then to be amended, assuming the facts can be verified to the organisers' satisfaction? And yes, the key words here have to be “quickly, easily and objectively” (see previous paragraph). Obviously there will be situations in which it’s difficult or even impossible, or by all sensible criteria too late, but why rule out the possibility of correcting an error which has nothing to do with the spirit and purpose of the game?