The most important topic EVER General forum

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The most important topic EVER
  • KPT at 2006-05-18

    God's Plan of Salvation

    The Bible says there is only one way to Heaven

    Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me.” (John 14:6)

    Good works cannot save you.

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    Trust Jesus Christ today! Here's what you must do:


    Admit you are a sinner.

    “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23)

    “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12)

    “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:10)


    Be willing to turn from sin (repent).

    Jesus said: “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:5)

    “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:” (Acts 17:30)


    Believe that Jesus Christ died for you, was buried, and rose from the dead.

    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

    “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners. Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)

    “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

    4)Through prayer, invite Jesus into your life to become your personal Saviour.

    “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:10)

    “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13)

    ==What to pray:===

    Dear God, I am a sinner and need forgiveness. I believe that Jesus Christ shed His precious blood and died for my sin. I am willing to turn from sin. I now invite Christ to come into my heart and life as my personal Saviour.


    “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” (John 1:12)

    “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” (2 Corinthians 5:17)


    If you have received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, as a Christian you should:

    a)Read your Bible every day to get to know Christ better.

    “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15)

    “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” (Psalms 119:105)

    b)Talk to God in prayer every day.

    “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22)

    “Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” (Philippians 4:6)

    c)Be baptized, worship, fellowship, and serve with other Christians in a church where Christ is preached and the Bible is the final authority.

    “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” (Matthew 28:19)

    “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” (Hebrews 10:25)

    “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” (2 Timothy 3:16)

    d)Tell others about Christ.

    “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” (Mark 16:15)

    “For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!” (1 Corinthians 9:16)

    “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16)

    If u accept christ –let me CONGRATS to you Kpato from CHILE

    when i was 7 years old ….i recive JESUS, HE IS THE LORD OF ME LIFE…

    and now …i want to share with us THIS!!!

    if u recive christ…congrats…u have eternal life.



  • KPT at 2006-05-18

    in more simple words…




    4)YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE…if u want to accept the gift of GOD.

    if u want it …just pray

    “Thankz jesus …because u die for me…

    im a sinner…Forgive me…im try to live diferent now (with your help)

    Come to my hearth”


    im glad to talk with u …

  • Carolina at 2006-05-18

    Hola,… =) !!

    Soy Carolina, recib? a Cristo como Se?or y Salvador cuando ten?a 14 a?os!, y es la mejor desicion que he tomado en toda mi vida. :)

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2006-05-19

    Logic rules here. Some of us have other beliefs. Please post your religous beliefs on sites that are appropriate.

  • Gregorlo at 2006-05-19

    Some people think religion as something serious, and some people hate SPAM. I think that we can assume that both sets of people are not disjoint, and so there are people that hate SPAM and takes religion seriously.

    So please, kpato, stop SPAMMING.

    On the “good side”, kpato has reseted “time after last post” in every forum ;-)

  • oniscoid at 2006-05-19

    can someone please delete this thread - it is offensive

  • ypercube ★ at 2006-05-19

    Nice point Gregorio, even from the worst things, something good can come up!

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    and there won't be anything else, cause i see you all suddenly stoped thinking and do nothing but reading - that's wrong, very wrong


  • Hjallti at 2006-05-19

    kpato, I don't really like your post

    I believe!

    I believe Jesus, as historical person being the Christ or not, was great ethical thinker, whose ethical system works for me, and if more people would follow it the world would be better (note that people claiming to follow it (like GWBUSHMan) don't follow it and make worlds better). ((Anyone refuting the historical Jesus can also refute Socrates, and most other ancient historical figures))

    I also believe that Jesus was the Saviour (Christ) therefor I am a Christian, but that is merely something personal, I wouldn't care to tell here, except that some people would wrongly assume my first statement to emply me being not a christian.

    But I don't believe that quoting sentences from the bible is following Jesus Christ his way of living, but rather following those characters where Jesus opposed most against throughout his life as far as we can know from the sources.

  • Hjallti at 2006-05-19

    By the way, in this forum this allowed, but in all game forums this is clearly spam!

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    fuck the god

  • Garyk Kaspik at 2006-05-19


    FYI, you are from today on my blacklist.


  • Tim Shih at 2006-05-19

    I do not like this post, either. BUT Kpato should be allowed to say whatever he likes to say, as long as he is not harming anybody, or as long as Kpato is not holding a gun to threaten anybody if she does not read his post.

    Also, I do not know the bible well. But, Hjallti, doesn't it say that two people can be a church, and that everywhere can be a church? (in the gold-veneered cathedral buildings, in the basement of a house, on the streets, or on LG forum). Jesus himself stood on the mountain, and spoke to masses of people. Kpato posted his message to 11,365 LG players. What is the difference?

  • Foul Ole Ron at 2006-05-19

    Jesus did not write his message on 11.365 pieces of parchment and shove them under people's doors, which is the Year-1 equivalent of what kpato did.

  • Hjallti at 2006-05-19

    As I said in my second post, spamming it was only on the other forums not here.

    I don't like the post because kpato claims things about which merely are his interpretation (of which he is entitled 1) to have it, like the non-player KKS is entitled to think 'believing there is nothing outside his sight would be anywhere better then believing there is something' 2) to share it (like KKS could share his opinion in some way but ofcourse not the way he did)) but presenting it in a way as if it is the TRUTH, and not his view, and in a way it scares more people away from that really beautiful message of Jesus?

    Of course there is another important difference… those masses came out to see Jesus the LG players come to this site to play games. (Jesus as far as we know, never came preaching at the international board game championships :-) ).

  • Foul Ole Ron at 2006-05-19

    That's the differerence I meant, yes ;) People who didn't want to hear the Message didn't go.

    I think on this forum it's also spam, BTW. Of course on this forum the dividing line is a bit more fuzzy than on the specific game forums. Does a discussion about game theory cross the line? (I don't think so, given the target audience, but others may) However, kpato's message has no relation whatsoever with either this site or it's content.

  • Tim Shih at 2006-05-19

    Hjallti, I visit pornography websites, which suggests that I obviously tolerate pornography. If I can tolerate pornography, I should be able to tolerate kpato's message.

    Intolerance appears to be the first step of follow-up escalating confrontations.

    What is intolerable to me is dishonesty and unfairness (injustice). What kpato did was nothing related to dishonesty and unfairness.

  • Hjallti at 2006-05-19

    I don't see what you mean, Tim.

    I never said this message (on the general forum) was spam and shouldn't be here. I said that I didn't really like that post.

    I do not copy the narrow contents arguments like Foul Ole Ron talks about. This forum (opposed to the game specific forums) is open to any content that is not abusive in my opinion (looking at the tradition, no where on this site there has been a statement give clear lines about what could. If the 'Jokes' thing can, why wouldn't this be allowed?). This gives me the right to say that I dislike the way kpato represents christianity and even the right to express my believe that Jesus wouldn't have liked it either. What I say is truthfull, for the simple reason that I'm NOT CLAIMING that Jesus didn't like it, I'm just claiming that I believe Jesus wouldn't like it.

    I don't have the faintest clue why you would compare anything here with you visiting pornography sites. I also don't have a clue why your tolerance line would be at stake here… there are youngsters playing here and even if YOU would be able to tolerate porn, why should everyone here be able to tolerate porn.

  • KPT at 2006-05-19


    sorry if my message disturb someone..

    thats no the original intention…

    im think this is not spam

    just i post one “link” in every forumgame

    to this topic.

    to KKS : Fine…in this topic…all the opinions are welcome :)

    and for Hjallti : u said “and in a way it scares more people away from that really beautiful message of Jesus?”

    JESUS came from SAVE US…(thats the real propose…if u study the biblie)

    (Because…of course the history of christ appears in the biblie)

    its like…i talk about harry potter..

    “Harry potter its a doctor”

    -“hey ! harry potter wasnot a doctor! itis a witch”

    -“But this is my opinion!!!”

    -“YES! but i wrote the book of harry potter!”

    the people take the characters of the bible

    and made his propries histories…

    nobody is in my side? hehe

  • Tim Shih at 2006-05-19

    Hjallti, if you did not object to the posting of kpato's message, I guess it was me who extrapolated too much from what you said, “….but that is merely something personal, I wouldn't care to tell here,…“. My apologies. :)

    Regarding pornography sites, I meant to say, “OK, whoever has not visited pornography sites can cast the first stoen.” What about youngsters? They are not supposed to visit pornography sites, Tim the ignorant knows that. But they should know the fact that many adults visit pornography sites, possibly including their parents.

  • Robin at 2006-05-19

    Tim, I do not believe that you will ever tell your own children that you visit pornography sites. By the way, you should stop doing it :-)

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    kpato do you see any goal in talkig all this shit, oh besides showing us how great and smart you are master, cause i don't

    what can i say, i'm just bored with all this


  • KPT at 2006-05-19

    any goal?

    put the seed …

    im done

    i finish my job…

    tell to u…about jesus.


    1cor 15:1-4

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    fuck jesus too :D

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    'i finish my job…'

    so good job buahahahaha

  • Looser at 2006-05-19

    Could anybody delete, remove, quiet, shut up or sth this guy –> KSP? Richard please… He offends me and many poeples here (I think) telling this sh…

  • Looser at 2006-05-19

    KKS not KSP

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    Advertisements have them chasing cars

    and clothes, working jobs they hate

    so they can buy shit they don't need.

    We are the middle children of

    history, with no purpose or place.

    We have no great war, or great

    depression. The great war is a

    spiritual war. The great depression

    is our lives. We were raised by

    television to believe that we'd be

    millionaires and movie gods and rock

    stars – but we won't. And we're

    learning that fact. And we're very,

    very pissed-off.

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    Looser I'm keeping your license. I know

    where you live. I'm going to check

    on you. If you aren't back in school

    and on your way to being a

    veterinarian in six weeks, you will

    be dead. Get the hell out of here. buahaha

  • Looser at 2006-05-19

    Que? Hyhy … Dont be ridiculous. If You want I'm waiting. Your dead words you can hide to your pocket. And now I dont want to waste my time on talking to you.

  • oniscoid at 2006-05-19

    kks doesn't offend me - and i don't see what pornography has to do with anything

    but having a forum which allows spamming, trolling and religous prosyletising by a fundamentalist juvenile bigot parrotting garbage fed to him by people even more gullible than himself doesn't do a lot for LG's image as a reputable games site

    no doubt kpato is aware these pages get indexed by search engines (such as MSN and Google) and is only too happy to take advantage of LG providing him with a free platform for him to be spew out his mindless gibberish

  • KPT at 2006-05-19

    “The great war is a

    spiritual war.” i think the same KKS :)

    1- this is not religius (just jesus and u)

    2- this is not SPAM :S

    im not undestood what u said oniscoid…

    but…i did “search LG” to put this topic.

    i play here about 1 year.

  • Hjallti at 2006-05-19

    Tim, to put it with a meta-phrasing: the fact that my believe that jesus is christ is something personal (which I wouldn't care to post here) is also something personal, indeed I didn't want to extrapolate other peoples choices. According to some evangelists Jesus asked his followers to tell everyone the Good News. I think kpato was trying that.

    It is sad that some player starts to use offensive language as a reaction. (by the way I'm also not offended by KKS because I don't get offended by people using that kind of language the first time I meet them. I would be offended if people I respect on this site would use this kind of phrasings. Nevertheless I consider that kind of language being offensive, low, stupid and childish. Oniscoid may call kpato juvenile because his believes sound fundamentalistic to him (I can imagine people finding oniscoid use of terms as parrotting garbage juvenile as well) what kpato did is at least more mature than what KKS is doing, in my opinion)

  • oniscoid at 2006-05-19

    kpato, of course your post was spam (it is not the spammer who says what is spam)

    but everyone hates spammers - so your post makes people think badly of your ideas !!??

    hmm… now i think perhaps i am wrong - this is just a troll by someone who doesn't like Christians!

    it is still spam, but i have a soft spot for people who troll, so i'm no longer upset about your post :)

  • KPT at 2006-05-19

    Hjallti :“According to some evangelists Jesus asked his followers to tell everyone the Good News. I think kpato was trying that. "

    totally right with u.

    Oniscoid:“so i'm no longer upset about your post :) "

    i dont undestood all that u say…but im glad by the last words


    Sorry if what I MADE wass spam

    JUST put one LINK in every forum game.


    more than 1 topic by forum…

    but.THIS IS 1 TOPIC…with links in every forum

    and..if noone post in that links

    they…going dissapear…


  • oniscoid at 2006-05-19

    Hjallti, the usual meaning of fundamentalism is accepting the literal meaning of texts, and i think in this sense kpato's post _is_ fundamentalistic

    but you misunderstand me - in the phrase “juvenile bigot” the word “juvenile” is being used as an adjective to describe “bigot”, and refers to kpato's age, not to his ideas

  • Cutt at 2006-05-19

    If all the people of all the religions used this forum to provide us with the word of their god/s, we gamers could go to discuss to other server until it was other time spammed…so please understand it doesn't matter how important your religion is for you, every religion has its temples for anyone who is interested.

    About the fact that your religion implies spreading the word, I think it is better if you spread it in other terms, because gamers may feel violent with some statements as choose between liar or sinner…


    “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us”

    with which we may or not agree as we have use of reason…

    or just the topic of spiritual war just give me chills, with millions of people massacred or out in the exile just because they were believers of other religions or believed the same god in a different way.

    Ah, a link with the theme of religion and chess…it is really fun to see how many people has been banned to play chess in the name of some religions, including some of the main branches of Christianity…

    (and so we are all damned, and must abandon completely gaming…)

    just I think this topic is really interesting…

    if anyone can find other games historical troubles with religion, it would be fun to read…

  • KPT at 2006-05-19

    im 18….

    im a child? …

    fundamentalistic…The text up here…

    are basics…and easy to understand

    it will be more difficult i talk about Profetic books

  • oniscoid at 2006-05-19

    kpato, no, you are not a child :)

    but in some countries 18 is “juvenile” - it is not a bad word - it is a legal word for when people are allowed to vote, drink alcohol, have sex, pay taxes, die for their country, drive a car, be executed, buy property etc


    Hjallti, taking kpato's first post at face value, he attacked the people on LG personally by calling them (rightly or wrongly) sinners - he also threatened them that if they did not do what he wanted them to do, then something bad would happen to them (they would not be saved… in Christian terms the implication is obvious)

    such people are dangerous - if they convert enough people to their beliefs they may attain power, and if they get into power they might start a crusade to save the world from evil!

    KKS's posts poked fun at our ideas and our conventions about language

    such people don't believe everything they are told by their parents and teachers and rulers, and the authorities see them as dangerous and imprison them and put them to death (qv Socrates - all he did was ask questions!)

  • oniscoid at 2006-05-19

    whoops! - “juvenile”… NOT “it is a legal word for when people are allowed”

    BUT “it is a legal word for when people are not old enough to”

  • KPT at 2006-05-19

    i think…there is a bad concept about the word “SIN”

    im not attacking u…or all the LG players




    Sin is all god doesnt like.

    SO SIMPLE (every day we sin)


    this is not an preconcept idea..(my teachers , parents etc..)

    I study the biblie by myself…


  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    fuck spam :D

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-19

    fuck the world… :D:D MUHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • KPT at 2006-05-19

    yeah shure

    FIX IT …

    u have an strange profile…:S

    1 year of registration

    and no games??? :S

  • Cutt at 2006-05-19

    well, kpato, that are your beliefs, (that we are all sinners), perhaps not of the other members of littlegolem. Remember that a belief is not an absolute truth, as must be referred as it is, a belief, and that your sources' only reliability is your faith in them.

  • KPT at 2006-05-19

    the point if…

    IF i invente a game…

    and u come to me…and tellme

    “hey kpato…the rules of the games are like this”

    -“hey hey! wait a minute…I CREATE THIS GAME”

    its the same with the word SIN.

    u cant tellme “u belief is all of us are sinner…but i think…etc”

    if we are talking about “SIN”

    All of us we are sinner…

    (that tell to god)

    like the example of Harrypotter.

    Quote: me

    its like…i talk about harry potter..

    “Harry potter its a doctor”

    -“hey ! harry potter wasnot a doctor! itis a witch”

    -“But this is my opinion!!!”

    -“YES! but i wrote the book of harry potter!”

    the people take the characters of the bible

    and made his propries histories…

  • Gregorlo at 2006-05-20

    you mean you are talking about fictional characters and facts? ok, sorry.

    kpato is telling us things that people lots of years ago said that Christ said that god thought.

    well, i think he stronger your faith is, the stronger these links you think are.

  • tasuki at 2006-05-20

    Just to offer a different point of view…

    I prefer Satanism.

    Please read through before flaming :-)

  • KPT at 2006-05-20

    hehe good one..

    gregorio…im try to said

    that Fictional or no Fictional characters…

    the history and the facts are like this…

    but its incorrect

    take one character and give to him others history or facts…


    nobody has another opinion?

  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-22

    > nobody has another opinion?

    shut up and start playing :D

  • KPT at 2006-05-22

    Start playing?

    who are u to tell me this


  • Kocham Kapitana Spoka at 2006-05-22

    Matthew 7,1-3 :D:D:D

  • Stanley Kozera at 2006-09-03

    We´ll be forever loving JAH…

  • KPT at 2006-09-03

    sooo icob

    you are christian :)

  • Gregorlo at 2006-09-04

    oh! the funniest topic EVER is here again!

  • Foul Ole Ron at 2006-09-04

    aargh… return of the zombie topic…

  • pitirre at 2006-09-04

    i dont read nowhere that god, jehova or jesus or whatever is the biggest sinner of them all. so, if god can sin…why discriminate against a simple human.

  • KPT at 2006-09-05

    God had never sin.

    God dont dinscriminate the human sinner.

    he loves all

    but he dont accept the sin

  • pitirre at 2006-09-05

    doesnt god lies? i believe he does.

  • Oops at 2006-09-05




    THAT'S IT.

    kpato personally - sometimes it's better to play (or to chew smth) rather than talk

  • KPT at 2006-09-05

    practlicly u are new here…

    dont tellme “kpato , better play.”

    this is a forum…

  • Oops at 2006-09-05

    better play gomoku :)

  • KPT at 2006-09-05

    we can play and we can talk :)

  • Oops at 2006-09-05

    talk is nothing for me.

    fight me with gomoku

  • KPT at 2006-09-05

    invite me

  • Tim at 2006-09-07

  • KPT at 2006-09-07



    u have a very bad concept

    of the gift of god

  • Gregorlo at 2006-09-07

    yes, kpato, Jesus told you!!!!! it has to be true!!!

  • Dvd Avins at 2006-09-07

  • Abigail at 2006-09-07

  • Abigail at 2006-09-07

    Oops. Please ignore the previous post.

  • Gregorlo at 2006-09-08

    you posted it independently? nice :-)

  • KPT at 2006-10-11

    nobody is agree????

  • pitirre at 2006-10-12

    god is dead…we all better that way.

  • Marius Halsor at 2006-10-12

    Agree with what, kpato?

    The idea of Christians? I think you'll find that many agree with that - probably even several people on this site.

    The idea of debating religion on LG, or even spread religious propaganda here? I think very few, if any, will agree with you that this is a good idea. If you want to discuss religion, a gaming site is just not the place. Don't expect to get serious replies when posting such spam here (note that it would not necessarily be spam on a site where discussiong religion was part of the agenda).

  • KPT at 2006-10-12

    again with the topic of the Spam ¬¬

    this is just a topic.

    and im not discussing about religion

    im to the plan of god.

    i didnt mention rituals or things.


    talk in LG

    about other things (not necesary games)

    its fun too..

    and maybe we can know each others :)

    good to see u in the forum again marius ;)

  • Gregorlo at 2006-10-13

    The label of “spam” is not something intrinsic to the message. As Marius said, that message “would not necessarily be spam on a site where discussiong religion was part of the agenda”.

    Perhaps Andrew-Villasante is “to the plan of Cuarto or Sexto” (or whatever). Does not make his message on topic ;-)

    Now we are not talking about religion, just about spreading religious propaganda here. Quoting Marius again: “Don't expect to get serious replies when posting such spam here”

    I began kissing Hank's ass and now I am extremely happy ;)

  • Tim at 2006-10-13

    Some people say Hank has got one or two brothers who own the city, too! Now, whose ass do I have to kiss? :)

  • adrenochrome at 2006-10-26

    When will this thread die.WHEN LORD WHEN

  • pitirre at 2006-10-27

    is “the most important topic ever” going to last as the belief of the invisible god/christ?

  • Dustin at 2006-10-27

    kpato, was it your intention to start a flame war or was this an honest attempt to convert your fellow gamers? In either case, I think you were wasting the time it took to post your message.

    Whether or not this is spam is irrelevant: in polite company one shouldn't discuss politics or religion. Just because you can post whatever you want, doesn't mean you should; it just alienates you from anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

    To everyone else: if this really bothers you that much, stop reading and replying to this thread. You are not going to change kpato's mind and it is boring to see the same topic every time one checks the forum. This thread has been here for over five months; let it die.

    Of course, if you are all enjoying your flame war, by all means, carry on.

  • KPT at 2006-10-27

    the topic bothers u dustin?

  • scottygr8 at 2007-06-09

    To all here: Very interesting discussions……

    ( As the old 'coach' says, whoever is holding the chalk or the

    pencil last is always the winner ).

    My faith says to all:

    [ please read kpato ] " So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the

    " traditions " which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by

    letter from us. " 2 Thes 2:15


    1) 'Eternal life is to know God and Jesus whom he

    sent ' { John 17:3 }

    2) 'God wills all to be saved and to know the truth ' (1 Tim 2:3-4 )

    3) 'All are saved only in the name of Jesus ' ( Acts 4:12 )

    It's interesting and mysterious when individuals or groups take topics

    from the good book & claim it to be the only thing, the only

    possible method worth instructing others. - ( this is my take )

    As you say, or some person 'told' you ….. only what is written

    down in the bible is worthy or will get you to heaven.

    Oh, and more food for thought:

    " See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive

    philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental

    powers of the world and not according to Christ. " ( Collossians 2:8 )

    Notice that this last quote actually 'invalidates' protestants

    who follow the teaching of Martin Luther or Calvin rather than

    following the teachings of Christ. These were merely humans…….

    I prefer the Jesuits ( i think ' Jesuit ' means one who comes

    in the name of Jesus ) way of teaching.

    I also admire the Redemptorists. A Redemptorist devotes

    his life to teaching and living as our most Holy Redeemer ( Jesus)


    Do you know his heart? ? ? ( His Sacred Heart ? ) Do you live as

    he lived? Do you do unto others……… ? Do you carry his

    HOLY CROSS with you daily ?

    Yes, the 'pen is mightier than the sword.'

  • KPT at 2007-06-09

    i dont undestand what u are saying scott

    in what side are you:S



    But after the verse u said crazy things:S

    im not saying something that someone toldme

    im saying that the bible says!

    (and you too…i really dont undestand you)

    by the way.


    i try to live like JESUS

    and i carry my cross all the days.


    i think the sword always is more stronger

    “And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God”

    ephesians 6 : 17

    first at all…did i said that im a protestant?

  • Abigail at 2007-06-09

    Jesus didn't play games on websites.

    So, quit here if you try to live like Jesus. (Or are you a liar, and you don't really want to live like Jesus? You know what happens to lying kids, don't you? They don't go to heaven, the burn in HELL!)

  • Paavo Pirinen at 2007-06-09

    aw brother. Again. I should be amused, but it's hard.

  • Robert Irvin at 2007-06-09

    Jesus really does love you, Abigail!

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-10

    Hey, Abigail - I saw him turn the other cheek - smack him again!

  • Abigail at 2007-06-10

    Yeah, and Santa loves me too.

  • Gregorlo at 2007-06-10

    Hank loves us all! :)

  • KPT at 2007-06-10

    jesus was not a bored person here on the earth.

    he lived like any human in this planet (BUT WITHOUT SIN)

    playing board games is not a sin

    im sure that jesus played some games too.

  • Aaron at 2007-06-10

    let me just something Ghandi said I believe….

    “I really like this Christ fellow, but it is these “spamming” Christians that really irritate me”

  • Hjallti at 2007-06-11

    Abigail, your point is strange… Jesus didn't play games on internet because he lived 2000 years ago. Strange claim that playing here contradicts wanting to live like him, unless you take that phrase to the word.

    Jesus went around teaching people, because that was very common those days. He was not the only to do so in history, and he even was not the only one to do so in that time period in that area. (Socrates and John Baptist ot the best known other examples).

    If I ask myself, how I can do the same as Jesus in my particular life, the answer is in my opinion not: to go around houses, towns and preach. Because now you people who do are classified as weirdos.

    You know you remark about Santa is even far out of place if we talk about Jesus. Jesus is a historical figure, with quiet interesting ethics. Wether you choose to believe him to be (Son of) God, and say he is the Christ, could in some way be compared with believing in Santa or in the believe of some that there is no God (which feels more naive to me, because most people that state that believe even go as far as to state that they do NOT believe, which is pretty much self-contradictory (to NOT believe is to say 'it might be, or it might not be, and I can't tell anyway))

  • Abigail at 2007-06-11

    Of course I take kpato to his word. BTW, kpato also said he is a protestant. Now, Jesus was a Jew. Not a Protestant. Not even a Catholic. But a Jew (both racial and religious).

    Jesus went around teaching because it was very common those days? You mean, he would have kept quiet if it was uncommon to teach? Perhaps Jesus has had many predecessors we never knew about because they were born in times where going around and teaching wasn't vere common. Of course, 'common' is quite a relative term. It certainly wasn't the norm, and most people in those times never visited a spot more than 25km from the place they were born. Socrates was not a contemporary from Jesus in either time, nor place (Socrates died more than 400 years before Jesus started his public life, and Socrates lived in Athens, not in Roman occupied Judea).

    If I ask myself, how I can do the same as Jesus in my particular life, the answer is in my opinion not: to go around houses, towns and preach. Because now you people who do are classified as weirdos.

    How would you know Jesus was never classified as a weirdo? Besides, if on judgement day, God asks you why you didn't spread his word around, do you think the excuse “well, I found not getting classified a wierdo more important than your word” will earn you a seat in heaven?

    Jesus is a historical figure, with quiet interesting ethics.. The first part of the statement is probably true. There was probably a Jewish teacher named Jesus around that time. However, not much else about his was known. Less so about his ethics. (The ethics as known from the bible are about the Jesus in the bible, which isn't the same as the historical Jesus). You do not know who that historical figured loved - but I doubt it was me, as said historical figure died more than 19 centuries before I was born. But I doubt Robert Irvin meant the historical figure. Instead, I think he meant the fictive figure we know from the bible. Which carries about as much meaning as to me as the fact that Santa loves me (but each year, I have proof Santa loves me).

    I don't understand your last remark, to NOT believe is to say 'it might be, or it might not be, and I can't tell anyway. To not believe, is just like that. You don't believe. Just as “to NOT play e2” means, you don't play e4. It doesn't mean “I may play e4 or I may not play e4, I can't tell anyway”.

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-11

    The evidence supporting the existence of a Jesus character is so pitifully sparse that belief even in such a human is a leap of faith. Independent *contemporary* evidence it basically _zero_. Add to that the fact that most of the evidence that Christians claim supports their assertions is demonstrably false - such as the non-existance of important places that they claim existed. And if you properly study the synoptic gospels, you'll see that they are constructed as a fairy story consisting of vignettes based on various parts of the old testament.

    /Who Was Jesus?/ by N. T. Wright is an interesting read, even though after clearly presenting much interesting evidence that denies it he comes to the conclusion that there was such a chappy (you can play spot-the-logical-fallacy in that chapter). Then again, he's an academic who's spent his whole life studying the field, and you'd hardly expect him to admit that he'd wasted his whole life on a fairy tale!

  • Hjallti at 2007-06-11

    No FatPhil, the evidence is not more sparse than for instance about the existence of Socrates; and much greater than Diophantos, for instance, and is NOT basically ZERO. Please get your facts right. By the way your counterevidence is false and a leap of faith… the synoptic gospels are composed thus Jesus didn't exict seems to me a very constructed argument.

    Abigail, please react on what I said: I never said I didn't spread the word, I just I don't do it the way he does because we live in another cultural situation. for Socrates and Jesus it was the same… and yes it was common that people that were famous went around teaching, it was not like common people went around teaching..that is an entirely other statement.

  • Abigail at 2007-06-11

    Hjallti, what's the *historic* evidence (and, no, the bible ain't no historic evidence, in the same way that J.R. Rowlings books aren't evidence of the existence of Harry Potter) is there that supports the existence of Jesus? Both Socrates himself and his ideas were written about by several contemporary authors, of which Plato is the most well known.

    I remain what I said about 'common'. Even for famous people in that time, most of them didn't go around teaching. As for Jesus, as the son of a carpenter, he was very likely to be poor - and quite a commoner. Most of his fame he archieved only after his death, and whatever fame he archieved during his lifetime, he archieved after he started teaching. He didn't first become famous, then started touring. “Idols” hadn't been invented at that time.

    Now, stop comparing Socrates and Jesus. Their ideas are far apart, and it would be an insult to Socrates to compare him with Jesus.

  • KPT at 2007-06-11

    please abigail dont take my word out of context


    kpato “first at all…did i said that im a protestant? “

  • KPT at 2007-06-11

    in the past

    nobody has a doubt about the existence of jesus.

    but in the present the things are really diferent.

    that is in the bible too :)

    dont compare jesus with other “masters” or “philosofy mans”

    if jesus was just a “good master” or a “guru”

    he was a liar too ,a demon from hell…

    because he claims be GOD.

    so do u believe thatjesus is god

    or he was a lunatic

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-11

    H: “evidence is not more sparse… and is NOT basically ZERO.”

    I can only presume you included all your evidence for Jesus's existance in your response. Namely precisely none.

    Don't say “it exists, honest” – show it. Then I will shred it. My statement that the gospels are a fairy story is a direct counter-argument to the most often quoted argument that Jesus exists, namely that it's written in the bible.

    If the guy existed and had any influence at all then it would be recorded in independent documentation, such as in the writings of the Roman historians of the time who reported on the state of the empire. Do you know of any sources that predate Tacitus, who only reports on a group that called themselves christians? And that's far from contemporary. And the fact that the paragraph in question contains factual errors about Roman administration about which Tacitus should have been well aware, it might even be forged. And on the subject of forgery, let's not start on the pathetic job made forging Josephus. Of course, that forgery had the thumbs up from Bishop Eusebius who clearly stated that it was permissible for Christians to lie in order to further the Kingdom of God…

    Eyes have they, but see not.

  • Abigail at 2007-06-11

    _in the past

    nobody has a doubt about the existence of jesus._

    Utter bullshit.

    Just look for instance at Hinduism, a religious belief that predates Jesus by at least a thousand years. Do you really think that in the past Hindus didn't doubt the existence of Jesus?

    I don't believe that Jesus is God. If you conclude from that (the fact that I don't believe Jesus is God) that Jesus was a lunatic, then that are your words, not mine.

    And don't doubt my words! The Invisible Pink Unicorn has said that Jesus is a fake. So there. What more proof do you need?

  • Gregorlo at 2007-06-11

    I've been kissing Hank's ass for months. Hank states Jesus was a fake too.

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-11

    As a pastafarian, I'm offended by your heretical mention of the IPU, Abigail!

  • Gregorlo at 2007-06-11

    Holy Noodle!!! I agree!!

  • Abigail at 2007-06-11

    My Invisible Pink Unicorn will eat your Flying Spagetti Monster for lunch. There's no need to doubt that, after all, it's written in the holy book, Foley 5:37: “And she will eat him, with a bottle of Perrier”.

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-11

    You need at least two tines to twirl spaghetti - your unicorn only has one horn, and so she cannot twirl! What kind of god cannot even twirl spaghetti?!

  • Abigail at 2007-06-11

    The Invisible Pink Unicorn is three. A Holy Trinity: Invisible, Pink and Unicorn. So, SHE can not only twirl your bowl of spaghetti, SHE even has a tine to spare. Which she will use to get rid of the meatballs. (SHE is vegetarian).

    And after SHE has consumed your Flying Spaghetti Monster, SHE will have tea. From Russell's teapot.

  • Dvd Avins at 2007-06-11

    To be fair, Abigal, if someone a couple of centuries AS (After Socrates) had compiled all the things written about Socrates, perhaps suppressed some of it and decalred the rest a Holy Tome, you would have a hard time proving the existence of Socrates without resorting to the Holy Tome.

    The troubling aspect regarding Joshua ben Joseph's (I guess it's actually Joshua ben Adam, since they weren't married) is the absence of Roman records. Perhaps, despite that he seemed to be a notable rabble-rouser, no records survived the 1st Century. That seems unlikely to me, assuming even the non-supernatural rudiments of the story are true. Perhaps the records existed, but were suppressed or destroyed by the Church, because the didn't reflect well on old Josh. And, of course, perhaps he never existed.

  • Abigail at 2007-06-11

    Dvd Avins: yes, but I didn't start comparing Jesus and Socrates. The difference is that there are several contempary sources writing about Socrates - but not about Jesus. Socrates may not have been as well known as he is now if all there was a compiled Holy Tome, created by the contemparies of Jesus.

  • Aaron at 2007-06-11

    who wrote what down where? Evidence? The calendar until they vote to change it to mean something else yearwise was based of Christ, quite a feat for someone with the credibility of Santa as being real.

    Taking evidence and shredding it hmm real open minded and mature.

    “Well give me evidence that Santa doesn't exist and I will take it and shred it” Hey it works, Santa must be real.

    In any case we can't even get what is happening in the today and now right why do we expect to get 2000 years ago right. All history that we haven't experience directly is based off of faith that the source you are reading is right. Basically other than extremely flawed logic all around like the shredder comment and getting my two cents on for the bonehead award for that comment that's all I wanted to say….ALL history not directly experienced (and even some of it that is )is based off of faith, and something that comes from one source an old 89 year old senile forgering thief could be more real than 50 historians in the past with a king backing em with a gun to all 50 historians heads. 'course that is just my opinion. You can have your holy infalible arguments about accurate history all you want and hope you sleep better at night with your version of things and let the timeline one of the greatest hoaxes in all of history.

  • Tim at 2007-06-12

    If you think of quantum theory, not even reality seems to exist …

  • Smaughster at 2007-06-12

    How do you mean, reality does not seems to exist? Quantum theory only places boundaries on how to measure reality, not on whether reality is there or not. In fact, science in its entirety does not explain or say anything about reality, only about how to measure and model it. You'd need philosophy or religion for the other answers.

  • Tim at 2007-06-12

    In the Copenhagen interpretation, there is no reality. There are only observations.

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-12

    Aaron: re calenders - don't you think that the fact that there's been a christian head to a highly influential nation or empire for over 1700 years may have had some influence over the adoption of calenders?

    Such an artifice is _not_ evidence of the existence of Jesus, is _not_ independent, and is _not_ contemporary.

    Consider yourself shredded.

    Your complete inability to tell the difference between a non-existence argument and an existance argument, and upon whom the burdon of proof should fall indicates that you are not equipped to take part in this thread.

  • Hjallti at 2007-06-12

    The ideas of Socrates and Jesus are far apart, indeed. Most essential difference in their ethics is the position of free will. Socrates said that if you know what is the good thing to do you will automatically do. Jesus denied that, and introduced the fact that we still can choose whether or not to do it. (This is also different from the Jewish tradition of sin, by the way.)

    As modern psycholist have proven Socrates was wrong at that point.

    To be clear and without taking the time to read everything through, I think at most parts I am more agreeing with FatPhil and Abigail than with the others. For instance, we can only be (pretty) sure if Jesus existed, if we start from the question if he existed. If we don't doubt his existence we can't proof his existence. This does mean we have to filter out all 'evidence' coming from sources that had interest in making believe he existed, thus the whole christian history starting with (Saint) Paul, and his program to compose biographies (by Lucas, Marcus and Matteus). They of course hold no evidence of the existence of Jesus (like Plato's work shouldn't be considered evidence of the existence of Socrates ((Sorry Abigail, I don't see why I shouldn't compare (how far their ideas in your reading of their ideas anyways moight be apart), it is easier to me to put these kinds of discussions in the proper light))).

  • Aaron at 2007-06-13

    Silly me, can't argue the shredding comment you win with your superiour whatever youwannacallit

  • Aaron at 2007-06-13

    ….of course I wouldn't want to talk about anything considered “crimespeak” ala 1984.

  • Smaughster at 2007-06-13

    The Copenhagen interpretation only avoids the question (or provides an answer) on whether the quantam world is “real”, but does not say anything about reality in the world we live in. In other words, whether a wave function should be seen as something existing in reality, or just as a mathematical function. This does not extrapolate to classical mechanics, since you may also have a view on gravity as described in a mathematical function, but noone (except for some nihilists) denies the reality of gravity in our day to day.

  • Tim at 2007-06-13

    Smaughster, you are right, of course. My point was that modern scientists do not care for an obscure thing called “reality”. Scientific realism (= “There is a relation between observations and the world as-such”) may have been an important scientific standpoint 100 years ago, but nowadays it is not. In this respect, there is no reality in modern science, especially not in quantum theory.

  • Dustin at 2007-06-13

    For philosophers of science, realism might be passe but I would wager that most scientists (at least the ones who bother thinking about such things) are realists of some sort. Many other belong to the “shut up and calculate” school of thought and regard the philosophers the same way that I imagine a basketball player would regard a sports writer.

  • Tim at 2007-06-14

    Personally, I believe the term “reality” makes as much sense as the term “god”. Reality is the opium of certain parts of the scientific community, if you want to put it that way. ;)

  • scottygr8 at 2007-06-14

    Hello Kpato,

    Sorry if some of my words were confusing or

    difficult to understand. It's just that I get bombarded

    by people ( who happen to be protestants or W.A.S.P.S. ) & when

    I read your info. that is how I understood it !!!

    Anyway, I know of a very good website for you - it is - I hope you enjoy the site.

    ( interestingly, …. er well just view the site )

    Also, God bless you & keep you in his heart ! ! ! !

    As Always,

    ' Scotty-Great '

    {{{{{{{ As for the " Doubting Thomas people " ,

    what else is there to believe in ? }}}}}}}}}}}

  • KPT at 2007-06-14

    seems a good site. thankz scotty

    btw im baptist

    but this topic isnt about religion or that stuff.

    the plan of god is for all the people

    is not about religion , is about relation.

  • ypercube ★ at 2007-06-15

    Oh, it isn't about religion?

    Let me read some words from your first post: God, Salvation, Bible, heaven, Lord, Jesus, faith, Jesus Christ, sinner, sinned, Lord Jesus, sin, believe, prayer, saved, Saviour, pray, sin, sin, repent, sin, Christian, Jesus, Bible, Christ, prayer, prayer, prayer, requests, Psalms, baptized, worship, preached, Bible, church, authority, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, preach, gospel, preach, gospel, God, salvation, Christ, Jesus, Lord, eternal life, God, sinner, …

    Sorry kpato, our mistake. We must have misunderstood. It is not about religion. Sorry again.

  • KPT at 2007-06-15

    hehe sounds difficult to undestand for some people yper…

    the religion is the most powerfull weapon of the devil.

    and all this terms has been “distorcionados”

  • Abigail at 2007-06-15

    You don't seem to know what religion is.

    Your unstoppable urge to express you silly views is religion. Note, I did not say that your beliefs are religion. But your combined, unprovoked, expressions are.

    And, yes, I agree. Religion is evil.

  • Tim at 2007-06-15

    The good thing is that every religion can easily be rebutted. If a believer claims religion A to be the only true faith, just invent your own religion B which says exactly the opposite. I call this the FSM rebuttal technique. It's extremely powerful.

  • KPT at 2007-06-15

    i did my job when a tell to you guys

    the plan of god

    (on the first post)

    the conversation is open , feel free to say your opinion.

    but i dont have more info to add for the first post.

  • Abigail at 2007-06-15

    I really wish you didn't add anymore “info”. Unfortunally, you cannot shut up.

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-16

    You seem a little hostile, Abigail.

    I admit, kpato goes on and on, (and on) but here we are, all hear reading it and responding!

  • Abigail at 2007-06-16

    Of course. I'm not letting people poison other people with dangerous ideas. I would be reacting if someone over and over again talks how wonderful pedophilia or racism are (or about the plans of the big white blue-eyed leader).

  • MichaeI X at 2007-06-16

    As bloke said somewhere else:

    I love these posts

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-16

    whoa. Christianity, pedophilia, & racism. You must have run into some nasty Christians at some point!

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-16

    All three are psychoses.

    I have a friend who's a textbook Kinsey 6 who has been mentally tortured by christianity and its message of hate and intolerance, and he's now completely screwed up, basically like one of the charicatures from this south park episode. Unfortunately, he's like the kid on the bridge.]

  • Robert Irvin at 2007-06-16

    Christianity is not a “message of hate and intolerance”. You are obviously speaking of something you don't understand (imagine that). If you want to help your friend, maybe you could get together with player2 and hack into god's computer to change the whole plan of salvation to something you can understand. Maybe you could come up with a nice Javascript for it…

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-17

    People of ANY religion can be hateful, intolerant and abusive in the name of God.

    I'm sorry about your friend, FatPhil

  • Abigail at 2007-06-17

    Christianity is not a “message of hate and intolerance”. Really? Did you read the bible? I don't know many books in which so much people get killed for so little reason.

  • KPT at 2007-06-17

    always the same…the history of the bears…etc etc etc…

    i dont know another man

    who die for all the world

    and all that we need to do is accept his gift :)

    pure love.

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-17

    Like Cain killing Abel? Has nothing to do with any religion. A story about one man in his jealousy kills his brother. Our human nature…to hate each other, to the point of either literal murder or just murder in our hearts. The Bible reflects what we are all still doing today.

    At least Jesus hung out with the “undesirables” … prostitutes and tax collectors. The Pharisees and Saducees were all about putting on a good face of piety and pointed fingers at the sinners…but really they were intolerant and hateful. Jesus got pretty pissed off at them on a number of occasions.

    I think one message of the Bible is they and any religion like theirs is completely screwed up….I don't think the authors' intention was to start a new religion that does the same thing.

  • KPT at 2007-06-17

    the author u mean.


    do not pretend that the HOLY BIBLE

    always talk about HOLY PEOPLES.

    not because Cain is a biblican characther

    is good.

    he was the first murder.

    not because is the HOLY BIBLE

    not talk about SIN or BAD(not holy)PEOPLE

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-17

    No, I meant authors, plural

    Inspired by God, written by many people. No one took dictation, except perhaps Moses.

    I don't understand the rest of your post.

  • KPT at 2007-06-17

    i think(in past the verb)

    that u said

    “hey look!! the holy bible!! CAIN AND ABEL

    what a good example for us”

    but i think im wrong…right?


    the writers…

    the only author is god.

    and maybe mark by dictation…(of peter)

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-17

    No, not a good example for us. How in the world did you read that out of what I wrote?

    I said the murders, hate and sin found in the Bible reflects real life as it occurs today. Abagail pointed out there is a lot of senseless murder in the Bible. She is right. But, I think these stories reflect our lives today: We murder, hate, and have little tolerance for people. How are people supposed to know if they are sinning if there's nothing to tell us that we are? The story of Cain killing Abel demonstrates how intense our jealously of one another can get! Jesus took the story a bit further by saying it's not just the physical act of killing that is murderous, but hatred for our brother is murderous.

    God could have dictated the Bible if He wanted to, but I don't think He did. Why would He write 4 Gospels with slightly different perspectives? The perspectives reflect the authors who witnessed the events. The message is the same, which I would say was inspired by God. What do you get out of trying to convince me otherwise?

  • Gregorlo at 2007-06-17

    kpato, my grandfather died for all the world. It just happens nobody wrote about it, and nobody accepts his gift. a pitty, right? :(

  • FatPhil at 2007-06-17

    Robert - There are some interpretations of the Christian scriptures that are not a message of hate and intolerance, but because the book is so full of contradictions there are plenty of interpretations that are utterly intolerant. BlackLab's first response hit the nail on he head.

    Thank you for making a joke about how JavaScript and hacking can help a guy very close to suicide. That's really helped lighten the pain that I and his other atheist friends feel (his christian ones seem to still be more interested in fixing him still). Have you considered getting a job as a counsellor?

    And quite what bit of christianity do you believe that I don't “understand”. Be specific. I have a very strong christian upbringing, and I certainly know both the traditional scriptures exceptionally well and also the modern mainstream authors' writings too. I think I have 7 different versions of the bible, including the Jehovah witness “New World Translation”, which always came as a shock to the nuts who knocked on my door as I was able to argue rings around them. I'm not so familiar with the US fundamentalist lunatics, but quite frankly I don't have that much interest in gawping at such trainwrecks.

    My particular background, middle-England middle-class Church of England, was in fact a very progressive, open and accepting branch of the church, one I have almost no criticism of at all. With almost no exceptions, they were good folk, charitable, and genuine.

    So the church is certainly a curate's egg.

  • Abigail at 2007-06-18

    kpato: i dont know another man who die for all the world

    I think many people wouldn't hesitate if they were given the option. But considering that noone has ever been given the option, you can't blame anyone for not dying to save the world, can you? However, history is filled with people giving their lives for a lot less than the entire world. Countless people have given their lives to save their children, their friends, their country, their king, their dog, or strangers. Mainly people died in vain trying to save others.

    Jesus was only dead for three days. And he had a lot of knowledge real people don't have when they give their lives: 1) he knew his action was going to be successful. 2) he knew he'd only be dead for three days. 3) he knew there's life after dead.

    So, compared to real people giving their lives, Jesus' act wasn't that impressive.

  • MichaeI X at 2007-06-18

    Some thoughts, not necessarily related to each other:

    Every suidcide terrorist gives his life for something he thinks its worth the sacrifice.

    To die when you can avoid it, is not always heroic.

    Where's the relation between being nailed to a cross and saving the world?

    If Jesus were not crucified, it's much harder for his disciples to spread their ideas. So He died for this reason ( a PR gimmick ) ?

  • Abigail at 2007-06-18

    I mention the violence and intolerance in the bible, and all think I'm

    talking about Cain? Did you ever read the bible? Really reading, I mean,

    not just eying over the words, but actually understanding what it all


    Take for instance the story of Noah. God wipes out the entire planet,

    except for one person, his sons and the lucky few who were married into

    his family. And because God is angry at most humans, he not only kills

    all the humans (except 8), to top it all off, most of all the animals

    as well. What did the poor animals do to get themselves killed?

    _And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of

    cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth

    upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath

    of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living

    substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both

    man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven;

    and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive,

    and they that were with him in the ark._

    Genesis 7:21-23

    But saving two of every beast is still too many of them - specially of

    the 'clean' beast. As soon as the ark opens, Noah takes all the clean

    beasts, and offers them to God so God can smell a sweet savour.

    Another example. As a child, you better not make fun of a bald person:

    And he[Elisha] _went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was

    going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the

    city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head;

    go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and

    cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she

    bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them._

    2 King 2:23-24

    Fourty two children killed by bears for making fun a bald head.

    Now, God doesn't just kill because it's all just the peoples fault.

    Take a look for instance at 2 Samuel 24. In the first verse, God temps

    David to take a census: _and he moved David against them to say, Go,

    number Israel and Judah._

    David does, but that turns out the wrong thing to do. Hence, David must

    choose between three punishments:

    _For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto

    the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, Go and say unto David, Thus saith

    the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may

    do it unto thee. So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him,

    Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou

    flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that

    there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what

    answer I shall return to him that sent me._

    2 Samual 24:11-13.

    David can't choose, so God sends a plague, and kills 70,000 men:

    _So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the

    time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba

    seventy thousand men._

    2 Samual 24:15

    So, God tempts David, David falls for it, and God doesn't punish David,

    instead, he kill 70,000 men (and an unknown number of women and children).

    Need more examples of the violence of God? Go read the bible!

  • Abigail at 2007-06-18

    God doesn't like handicapped people:

    _And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto Aaron, saying,

    Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any

    blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For

    whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach:

    a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing

    superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or

    crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be

    scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a

    blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer

    the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall

    not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. He shall eat the bread

    of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. Only he shall

    not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he

    hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD

    do sanctify them. And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons,

    and unto all the children of Israel._

    Leviticus 21:16-24

    David, one of Gods favourites, doesn't like blind people either:

    _And David said on that day, Whosoever getteth up to the gutter,

    and smiteth the Jebusites, and the lame and the blind that are hated

    of David's soul, he shall be chief and captain. Wherefore they said,

    The blind and the lame shall not come into the house._

    2 Samuel 5:8

    Don't piss against a wall either, you'll be killed by Gods favourite:

    _So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all

    that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against

    the wall._

    1 Samuel 25:22

    Need more examples of the intolerance of God? Go read the bible!

  • Hjallti at 2007-06-18

    Abigail, apart from the fact that I am aware that the bible has much more example, you didn't say anything about the intolerance of christianity in your post, but only about the old Jewish intolerance. First of all you mention the Old Testament, while christianity is about the New Testament and the new view Jesus (who is said to be the Christ) of God, including the old testament. Jesus would rather be on your line of thinking about those parts of the old testament, in my opinion. He kind of countered most people thinking as radical as those fragments show.

    On the other hand you can proof that Christianity throughout its history indeed was intolerant and even is at present for example viewing the big nonsense the current (catholic) pope is saying in some issues lately.

    I thought we were discussing Jesus rather than Christianity. In name of Jesus Christ many bad things happen and happened, also many good things, but apparently we are not supposed to mention those.

  • Abigail at 2007-06-18

    Are you saying the God Jesus refers to (his father) is a totally different God that the one in the old testament? Then why is that old testament in the bible - the scripture that Christians always refer to explain their worldly views?

    Or are you one of those cherry picky Christians? Only picking out those verses out of the bible that suits their view of the week, dismissing the rest as “fairy tales”, “stories” or “the old Jewish view”?

    I could of course also cite the verses Christians groups around the world use the discriminate against homosexuals. Straight from the bible used to justify hate and intolerance against homosexuals. Other verses justify their view against women. (And, yes, I am aware some people that don't discriminate against Christians don't discriminate homosexuals - that doesn't mean Christiany isn't a violent and intolerant movement).

  • KPT at 2007-06-18


    i read(past) twice the bible…

    and every day i read it.

    every thing u said has an explanation.

    the mayority is out of context.

    but its really hard to me

    explain all this points.

    because i dont have a lot of time.

    and i have to do the double effor

    to comunicate …because my english is so bad.

    the thread is open.

    feel free to post your opinions.

    but the topic is not against me…

    the bible doesnt need my defence.

  • Abigail at 2007-06-18

    Sure, everything can be explained by lots of hand waving.

    Generally, the argument goes:

    “God is exists. God is all loving. It's in the bible, the word of God. Oh, BTW, all those marked passages, they mean something else. What did you quote this time? Let me get the marker, it also means something else”.

    With such an approach, one could take the Harry Potter novels and explain how all loving the Invisible Pink Unicorn is.

    BTW, I did NOT post opinions. I quoted God. (It was you, kpato, who claims the only author of the bible is God).

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-19

    I agree those passages sound harsh, and it makes a lot of logical sense on the surface to dismiss God as murderous, cruel, and evil. He WAS really ticked after the Fall. What was supposed to happen was that man was to disintegrate and disappear for disobeying. Eternal death was supposed to be the payment for sin.

    I'm no Bible scholar, but probably no one else here is either. But it is a damn complicated book. So, your choices are to read on the words on the surface and conclude God is evil, dismiss what you read (the “hand waving”), or try to figure it out by context, history, culture, and by looking at how the message of the books hang together.

    Here's one take: the Leviticus passage 21: 16-24

    The way I understand it is this: Priests at that time were significant representations of God. Since people are visual, and visual perception has a strong influence on people, any physical infirmity or malformation of the priests would have drawn ridicule from the masses and detracted from the weight and authority of the sacred office of being a priest. Think about it, throughout history and today, people make fun of the disabled. Given the role of the priest, God would not have been taken seriously.

    I think very few people today equate a priest, rabbi etc. as being “a representive of God,” so it's a little counter-intuitive for us. We definitely see ministers as being on par with us (or in some cases hypocrites or inferior to us)!

    Priests with physical defects could not officiate in sacred ceremonies, but they were allowed to serve for other inferior duties. As stated, their deformities would have been a distraction to the message.

    The purpose of these regulations was for preserving the unsullied purity of the sacred character and office. It was supposed to point towards God's purity and sacredness.

    The Old Testament is supposed to point to the New Testament. So, Jesus was a Priest, spotless, blameless, a lamb sent for sacrifice

    So, yeah, on the surface it sounds like God hates handicaped people. But just because high priesthood wasn't an equal employment opportunity doesn't mean God hated them. I think it means people are dumb and can't “see” beyond what they see with their eyes.

  • Gregorlo at 2007-06-19

    Let me understand it… some things in the bible are written in such a way to people to understand the message. For example, that Jesus is the son of God? or that God exist?

    I am sure that teaching ethics in that time was a hard task without a god, so priests used that icon to show their thoughts. Did I get your point, BlackLab?

  • Tim at 2007-06-19

    Why doesn't God use e-mail?

  • isometry at 2007-06-19

    I've received an e-mail from Jesus! But then it turned out it was just some Spanish guy.

  • MichaeI X at 2007-06-19

    isometry, you can't know in which shape Jesus will show up this time.

    It could be “just some Spanish guy”.

    You have to use your heart and believe, to be able to see Him ;)

    (Am I right, kpato?)

    Reread all mails in your spam folder and believe.

    Or is this the reason why God does not use email?

  • isometry at 2007-06-19

    It was not spam; he had taken interest in my game Neutreeko and we exchanged several e-mails. ;-)

  • MichaeI X at 2007-06-19

    Yes, Jesus is a very common name in Spain. (not stranger than e.g. Maria)

    And even then, regarding my previous post, you never know …

    (until you slap him and he offers the other cheek, too ;)

  • BlackLab at 2007-06-19

    I suppose you're right Michael X, the existence of God, or Jesus being the son of God is not understandable to a lot of people. And even for those who believe, the trinity is pretty much incomprehensible too…

  • Carroll ★ at 2007-06-20

    This is a good test Isometry, if a guy takes interest on Neutreeko, he can't be real Jesus or God or I would be very disappointed your java code knows more on that subject than Him.

    Or maybe he was only interested on your real motivations to write some code to break God Algorithm ?

  • Gregorlo at 2007-06-20

    I hacked human genome too, so God should change the password.

  • Felipe Herman van Riemsdijk at 2007-06-30

    oh my… god its just a imaginary friend(I mean, it doesnt have a body and seems to be all powerfull for those who can “see” it[yat, thats right IT not him]] I'd personally preffer my imaginary friends, Yoda, R2D2 and C3P0 :):):)

  • KPT at 2008-02-26

    the resurrection of this topic.

    if there is anybody who doesnt know it.

  • Abigail at 2008-02-26

    Oh, please. Can we stop this “resurrection” or “bumping” of threads? Otherwise, I'm more than happy to “resurrect” some spam messages.

    If you have nothing to add to a thread, let it die.

  • KPT at 2008-02-26

    maybe someone have something to add (like you right now :D )

  • FatPhil at 2008-02-27

    I don't believe in the countermeasures Abigail suggests, but agree with his sentiment. Here is not the place for thrusting religeon upon others.

    If I'm at a metal gig, I don't mind people slam dancing into me. (Why else would I be in the mosh pit?)

    If I'm in a straight-friendly gay pub I don't mind blokes starting to make approaches to me. (I'm quite flattered to be honest.)

    And if I'm in a church, I don't mind people wanting to enquire about whether I have accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Saviour and discuss related matters. (My knowledge of the bible is enough to make them regret ever opening such topics.)

    Little-golem forums are none of the above locations.

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2008-02-27

    A natural continuation could be:

    “If I'm on Little Golem, I don't mind people kicking my a** at Amazons.”

    Which you would at a tea party, for instance.

  • FatPhil at 2008-02-27

    Actually I do mind practically everyone kicking my arse at Amazons, can someone let me win occasionally, please? I don't mind them offering me a game though.

    However, I owe you a pint, Tas. I'd just packed my bag for my holiday, and had forgotten my cards/dice! Now corrected.

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