Now we have the lowest number of player in the ch. ever… 178

That doesn't bother me. I'm in League One for the first time ever. Yeah! :-)

You are welcome… :—)))) One more EinStein-Dino… ;–)))

Uhh, it will be hart to beat Rororo in the Championship…

Phil, is it possible that Rororo calculate the tournament?

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

I've been requested to follow einstein.ch.11.1.1 by FatPhil

For info on how these predictions are calculated see my predictions web page.

• Already completed matches:

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 27/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1792)-22022208445.25%1.47%18.36%3kfiecio(1871)00-020226568.05%1.53%19.85%5Hartmut(1789)020=-202>6280.21%0.16%60.13%6Luca Bruzzi(1665)00220-0>===>>>>>==-=>001.91%0.49%48.68%11Diamante(1723)0=====>===-=000.19%0.06%86.24%12Carroll(1791)0><=-000.08%0.02%88.03%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Carroll 0 - 2 John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 28/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1817)-22022206568.33%1.50%20.41%5Hartmut(1789)020=-202>6320.27%0.18%58.64%6Luca Bruzzi(1665)00220-0>=>>>>>>=-=>002.91%0.65%41.79%11Diamante(1723)0=>===>===-=000.44%0.11%81.33%12Carroll(1702)00=><=-000.00%097.23%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

How is it possible that my p(win) dropped although I won the last game?

Cause you've lost 25 rating points since then.

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Carroll 0 - 2 Jonny

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 29/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1841)-20222206320.35%0.17%53.03%6Luca Bruzzi(1665)00220-0>=>>>>>>=-=>002.73%0.73%43.85%11Diamante(1730)0>=>>===-=000.77%0.14%74.81%12Carroll(1692)000==>><=-000098.44%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Note that the rating is only one course of dropping as the other Jonny now has the same with growing rating. Rororo also use the real score in games and calculates from there, so while you can win a game that was almost won will not really raise the rating will a game that you were at 1-1 and now you are trailing 1-2 give a loss of more %.

Note that the wins against Carroll are expected win according to her rating.

Well, it has nothing to to with the rating.

Just with the tournament. Rororo calculate very complex, so not only the win und lose games of one player are in the calculation, all players are involved in the calculation, that means the Son points.

That would never explain why your chance would drop after a single victory, if only one game has been completed. Rororo guesses on the outcome of every game, that looks at the entire result and does this thousands of times. Clearly (a bit more than) half would be with the mentionned victory. There the result will be in average (at least) better than those with a loss at the same spot. Only if the other games are significant changed (due for instance that Johnny trails Diamante in the last table, and not in the previous table) the other games will influence the table, and that was exactly my point. Rororo uses the ratings to make his guesses and that is the other possible significant change. I don't think that two runs of Rororo with the same knowledge would differ so much, as we see now.

Firstly, there's enough noise such that the final digit is meaningless, but I keep it there to give a pretence of it being accurate. Shhhh! don't tell anyone ;-)

Also notice that it wasn't just a single victory that's changed. Kitaktus has got a boost of a whole 1% after winning one frame in his match against hanfried_c. That 1% has got to come from somewhere, and while some of it would be from hanfried_c, some of it comes from others.

But certainly, most of the change in prediction comes from the change in rating. (See RoRoRo's recent boost from a ratings hike.)

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Hartmut 2 - 0 Carroll

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 30/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1824)-2022220=4320097.47%7Disciple(1735)000202->4240098.36%8FCGerard'91(1751)2==>>>0>>>=-=>002.60%0.63%44.91%11Diamante(1720)0>=>>===->000.63%0.15%77.17%12Carroll(1664)0000==><<-000099.80%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• hanfried_c 2 - 0 kfiecio

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 31/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1824)-2022220=4320097.67%7Disciple(1735)000202->4240098.50%8FCGerard'91(1751)2==>>0>>>=-=>002.75%0.72%44.59%11Diamante(1720)0>=>>===->000.71%0.14%76.83%12Carroll(1664)0000==><<-000099.79%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• hanfried_c 2 - 0 RoRoRo the Bot
• kitaktus 2 - 0 Luca Bruzzi

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 33/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1823)-20220220222167222.02%5.30%02John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1816)0-202=22====28564.79%1.32%24.54%4Hartmut(1799)02=-0>202>0>=4320099.55%8Disciple(1735)000204240099.37%9FCGerard'91(1751)2=0=2>>-=>283.14%0.78%47.10%11Diamante(1720)0>=>>===->000.73%0.16%77.70%12Carroll(1675)0000===<<-000099.84%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Luca Bruzzi 0 - 2 Carroll

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 34/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1823)-20220220222167622.36%5.39%02John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1827)0-202=22==2=2=8605.34%1.28%23.42%4Hartmut(1799)02=-0>202>00>4320099.98%8Disciple(1735)000200=2>>->=283.37%0.73%45.51%11Carroll(1690)0000==2=>>===>-000.80%0.20%78.33%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Luca Bruzzi 2 - 0 FCGerard'91
• FCGerard'91 0 - 2 Jonny

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 36/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1776)-02222020222168021.46%5.67%02Jonny(1839)2-0=20026400099.92%7hanfried_c(1899)2>=->000>02=>>->=2123.38%0.65%44.53%11Carroll(1690)0000=2=>>==>-000.67%0.16%78.21%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Carroll 0 - 2 Disciple

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 37/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1770)-02222200222168418.26%5.02%02Jonny(1839)2-0=2022=10689.77%2.23%9.37%3John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1827)02-0222=2=>-000=>-02>=>->=2121.66%0.40%53.07%11Carroll(1677)0000=20=>>>=====>-000.56%0.16%81.03%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Hartmut 0 - 2 Jonny

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 38/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1770)-02222200222168410.98%3.96%02Jonny(1853)2-022022=128416.71%3.90%1.59%3John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1827)02-0222=2=>-000=>-02>=>->=2121.53%0.47%50.59%11Carroll(1677)0000=20=>>>=====>-000.86%0.17%75.65%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Carroll 2 - 0 kfiecio <— upset!

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 39/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1757)-0222220202216889.88%4.45%02Jonny(1853)2-02202>128826.02%5.44%0.96%3John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1781)02-0222=222=>-=000=>=-02>=>>->2122.14%0.55%43.61%12Diamante(1726)0>>>>>>><-002.28%0.35%52.13%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• kitaktus 2 - 0 Hartmut

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 40/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1757)-02222202202169211.75%4.97%02Jonny(1853)2-0220222>128825.32%5.50%1.09%3John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1781)02-0222=>2022=>-===->>>4281.61%0.58%42.46%10Carroll(1718)0000220=000=>>>>>>>-002.05%0.32%52.44%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Luca Bruzzi 0 - 2 hanfried_c

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 41/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1757)-02220222202169210.19%4.74%02Jonny(1853)2-02222>128823.55%5.35%1.06%3John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1781)02-02=22>220022===->>>4281.80%0.64%38.48%10Carroll(1718)00002=2000>0=>>>>>>-001.57%0.32%56.66%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Disciple 2 - 0 FCGerard'91
• John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor 0 - 2 FCGerard'91

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 43/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1773)-0222202022216968.35%3.71%02Jonny(1853)2-02222>129624.14%4.99%0.96%3John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1745)02-022=20>22202=-20-=2>->>4281.69%0.50%39.08%11Carroll(1728)000020>>>>>>-002.29%0.29%47.77%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Jonny 2 - 0 kitaktus

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 44/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1792)-0222202022216961.87%1.05%02Jonny(1867)2-02221410432.66%3.57%03John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1799)02-02222202>-2>0-->>42800.02%52.15%11Carroll(1728)000020>=>>>>-000.84%0.17%58.59%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Carroll 0 - 2 kitaktus

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 45/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1792)-02222022022161005.44%1.43%02Jonny(1867)2-0222022022=8480072.48%6Disciple(1763)00002->2-2>2>63600.02%54.49%10FCGerard'91(1722)202000>0==>>>>-001.52%0.36%57.37%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Disciple 0 - 2 kitaktus

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 46/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1792)-02222202022161045.54%1.45%02Jonny(1867)2-02222022>8520.00%0.04%46.05%6Hartmut(1771)00200-0>222=8480073.62%7Disciple(1751)000002->2>-20-==>>>>-001.34%0.36%58.71%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• FCGerard'91 2 - 0 Carroll

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 47/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1775)-02222200222161045.69%0.86%02Jonny(1867)2-0222228600097.61%5Hartmut(1771)0020-00>222=8520073.69%6kitaktus(1841)0022>8520.01%0.08%45.93%7Disciple(1751)000020->2>--02=6600093.60%10Luca Bruzzi(1753)020200002-0>=>>-001.04%0.40%61.79%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• kfiecio 2 - 0 Diamante

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 48/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1783)-02222202022161086.27%0.92%02Jonny(1867)2-022222222=8520074.60%6kitaktus(1841)002>85200.01%48.12%7Disciple(1751)000020->2>-20-20=>>>>-000.84%0.42%57.33%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor 0 - 2 Diamante

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 49/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1765)-02222202022161126.38%0.80%02Jonny(1867)2-022222222=8520074.67%6kitaktus(1841)002>85200.01%48.79%7Disciple(1751)000020->2>-20-2>>>>-2201.23%0.51%50.87%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Luca Bruzzi 0 - 2 Diamante

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 50/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1725)-02222202022161165.99%0.72%02Jonny(1867)2-02222222=28520073.95%6kitaktus(1841)00>285200.01%48.25%7Disciple(1751)000020->2>-266456.88%4.18%2.04%9Luca Bruzzi(1755)02020000-20066000100.00%10FCGerard'91(1738)202000->2>->4321.10%0.50%49.75%12Carroll(1721)0002000<20<-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Diamante 2 - 0 Carroll
• Diamante 2 - 0 Jonny

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 52/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1717)-022222202021612415.25%2.09%02Jonny(1846)2-0202222>2>28683.28%1.58%21.68%6Hartmut(1771)0020=-00>2228520077.33%7kitaktus(1841)002-2285200.04%58.57%8Disciple(1751)0000>2>-266462.62%2.22%2.69%10Luca Bruzzi(1755)020200000-2066000100.00%11FCGerard'91(1738)20200-26600098.09%12Carroll(1705)00020000<20-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• hanfried_c 2 - 0 John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 53/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1745)-02202222202161247.35%0.78%02Jonny(1846)2-02220210840047.84%4kfiecio(1841)000-0222202010760098.53%5hanfried_c(1915)2>22-=>288475.59%1.38%0.55%6Diamante(1727)0220=-=2=28681.10%0.68%36.08%7Hartmut(1771)0020>=-002228520072.60%8kitaktus(1841)002-22>285200.05%51.65%9Disciple(1751)0000=0<00-26600094.80%12Carroll(1705)0002<000020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• hanfried_c 2 - 0 Disciple

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 54/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1745)-00222222202161244.49%0.60%02Jonny(1846)2--22=221010080.21%1.21%0.32%4John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1725)020-200>220210840048.20%5kfiecio(1841)0000-222202010760098.39%6Diamante(1727)02=20-=2=28680.96%0.65%35.70%7Hartmut(1771)00>20=-002228520072.02%8kitaktus(1841)002-22>285200.06%50.77%9Disciple(1743)0000020=0<00-26600094.60%12Carroll(1705)00<02000020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Hartmut 0 - 2 Diamante
• Diamante 2 - 0 Disciple

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 56/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1760)-02022222202161323.39%0.74%02Jonny(1846)2-0=-22221010074.88%3.76%0.31%5John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1725)0200-20>220210840042.23%6kfiecio(1854)00200-22202010840099.82%7Hartmut(1753)000>20-0022285200100.00%8kitaktus(1841)00=285200.13%57.68%9Disciple(1726)00000020-22284800100.00%10Luca Bruzzi(1755)020002000-2066000100.00%11FCGerard'91(1738)20=>200<00-26600096.97%12Carroll(1705)000<0200020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Hartmut 2 - 0 hanfried_c

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 57/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1760)-02022222202161365.90%0.51%02Jonny(1846)2-0=-220>221010064.71%4.15%0.64%5kfiecio(1854)0020-022202010880099.78%6John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor(1725)02002-0>220210840042.27%7Hartmut(1776)000202-00222107200100.00%8kitaktus(1841)00=28560057.46%9Disciple(1726)00000020-22285200100.00%10Luca Bruzzi(1755)020020000-2066000100.00%11FCGerard'91(1738)20=>020<00-26600096.79%12Carroll(1705)000<2000020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• hanfried_c 2 - 0 Jonny

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 58/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1764)-002222222021613611.91%0.62%02Jonny(1833)2-0020222022141240003hanfried_c(1913)22-=220>2228560036.80%9Disciple(1726)00000020-22285200100.00%10Luca Bruzzi(1755)020020000-2066000100.00%11FCGerard'91(1738)20>=020<00-26600096.75%12Carroll(1705)00=02000020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• John-Marc 'Johnny' McGregor 0 - 2 kitaktus

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 59/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1764)-00222222202161409.41%0.23%02Jonny(1833)2-0020222022141280003hanfried_c(1913)22->220>2221076003.56%9Disciple(1726)00000020-22285200100.00%10Luca Bruzzi(1755)020020000-2066000100.00%11FCGerard'91(1738)20>=020<00-26600096.37%12Carroll(1716)00=02000020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• hanfried_c 2 - 0 Carroll

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 60/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1791)-00222222202161402.48%002hanfried_c(1920)2-2>220>22022-22>21076002.68%9Disciple(1726)00000020-22285200100.00%10Luca Bruzzi(1736)002020000-2066000100.00%11FCGerard'91(1738)2>0=020<00-26600096.93%12Carroll(1709)00002000020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Why is the game hanfried_c vs. Diamante depicted as hanfried_c > Diamante? The standing ist, as far as I can see, 2-2.

The scores aren't updated dynamically, when RoRoRo posted hanfried_c was leading 2-1.

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• FCGerard'91 0 - 2 Diamante

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 61/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1791)-00222222202161447.13%002hanfried_c(1920)2-2=220>22022-22>21076000.80%9Disciple(1726)00000020-22285200100.00%10Luca Bruzzi(1736)002020000-2066000100.00%11FCGerard'91(1721)2>00020<00-26600099.62%12Carroll(1709)00002000020-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• FCGerard'91 2 - 0 hanfried_c <— upset!

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 62/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1RoRoRo the Bot(1791)-00222220222161448.25%002hanfried_c(1896)2-2=220>02221413685.55%003Jonny(1833)20-020222202141320004Diamante(1730)0=2-022022->2221076000.94%9FCGerard'91(1745)2200020<-0028880099.42%10Disciple(1726)000000202-2285600100.00%11Luca Bruzzi(1736)0020200020-066400100.00%12Carroll(1709)00002000002-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

Tournament: einstein.ch.11.1.1

Newly completed matches:

• Diamante 0 - 2 hanfried_c

Num Players: 12

Games completed: 63/66

NPlayerRating123456789101112ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)p(down)1hanfried_c(1904)-222202>022216164100.00%002RoRoRo the Bot(1806)0-0222220222161440003Jonny(1833)02-022022202141320004Diamante(1710)002-022022->2221076000.88%9FCGerard'91(1745)2200002<-0028920099.12%10Disciple(1726)000002002-2285600100.00%11Luca Bruzzi(1736)0020200020-066400100.00%12Carroll(1709)00002000002-43200100.00%

p(down) is the probability of being in the places 6-12 and thus being demoted

congrats to hanfried_c (and to his programmer :)

Congrats also from me to Hanfried and its

programmers (Jorg Sameith & Stefan Schwarz)

and its operator (Stefan Schwarz) !

A “restricted” version of Hanfried can be

downloaded from here.

Ingo

(proud doctor father of Stefan (Dr. in 2003) and Jorg (Dr. in 2005))

jepp, congrats from me too. It was a hard fight for me… but both bots are better… this time. :-))

Jonny - EinStein Oldy

Thank you very much.

I was not aware that the tournament is already decided.

I am happy that my match against hanfried will not influence the championship.

It would have a bad tast, otherwise. To avoid such situations I will not play in the championship together with hanfried.

Kitaktus (=Stefan)

Kitaktus - please do play, you've earnt your place in the top league. Can you not automate hanfried_c more, so there's no human involvement?

And congrats to the superior bot!

I am not able to automate hanfried. If anyone else can do it, send me a PN.

On the other hand autonomization isn't a solution, since hanfried isn't the problem.

The problem is: “Can _I_ play with full strength against hanfried, if I know that he needs the victory to become champion?” and “Can everyone else belive it, if I say yes?”

So the bots finished 1-2. It's the first time, so I wouldn't say that they've conclusively demonstrated superiority. It's pretty close to that, though. Perhaps if one of them wins Championship 12 too, it will be time to retire them from the championships.

and the monthly cups too?

RoRoRo sent me a message over IRC. He said “99 games, started as soon as you agree, of 7-point Einstein 20s/move, winner stays in the upcoming championship, loser retires”. Presumably he'll let you take the 50-49 advantage of whichever colour you prefer.

I'll retire RoRoRo from the championship upon loss if you'll retire hanfried_c likewise.

I'm certainly not going to stand here and see a human retire unnecessarily, when there are robots (or at least one Robot) that are (is) prepared to retire instead.

I thought it would be discussed that it would not be necessary to take the bots from the competition? I want that they remain in. Maybe we should start a doodle poll?! ;)

A bot won this tournament for the first time. But in my opinion, there were only 3 of the 10 best human players in the championsip. Let stay them in and look what happens in 2012.

It's often been discussed. Several have voiced a clear opinion that they do not like robots playing in the championship. If we bot-providers believe we are providing a popular service, then we have to follow a majority opinion.

I have no problem with the bots. /as long as they recognize that they are bots/

Some notes:

1. It would be fine if you, Kitaktus, stay in the tournament with Hanfried. Because

a) Its just a game!!!

b) If you say (when you can! say) that you play with the same strength against all (include hanfried), then we have had believe it.

c) For me, it had no “bad taste”, but i understand what you mean

2. It is very gentle, that kitaktus, hanfried_c and rororo the Bot say, that they want retire from the chs. My proposal is, that all stay in for ch 12.1.1 (see Naive_child_c). And if we have then a bot as winner of that 12. chs. Then we can all next player of tournament 13.1.1 ask, what they want.

3. How we can play team against team? - I like to have an bot team too.

Jonny

Jonny proposed:

> … I like to have an bot team too.

Me, too. And I would be willing to restructure

the Waldorf team to become a bot team.

I would even be willing to rename it, becoming

“Waldorf and his Bots”

Ingo.

On May 10, 2011, ypercube wrote here:

> congrats to hanfried_c (and to his programmer :)

Here is an item from the early days of EWN and of EWN programming:

EWN Duel on Campus.

That event motivated the programmers of Hanfried for their project.

Ingo.