(10x10) Accused of Cheating - what should I do? Reversi forum

12 replies. Last post: 2009-01-04

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(10x10) Accused of Cheating - what should I do?
  • Ola Mikael Hansson at 2008-12-11

    (I hope I am not breaking any etiquette rules by posting this - this is my first posts to the forums)

    I just received the following message in one of my games, game 970330:

    “Youââ?¬â?¢ve been cheating at this all the time. Iââ?¬â?¢ve compared your moves with those of Daisy Reversi and they match 100 %. Therefore I ask you please to stop doing that immediately. Resign this game and never do that again (at least not with me). If you donââ?¬â?¢t resign immediately the game Iââ?¬â?¢ll post you attitude to the Webmaster and report it at the forum as well.”

    I am definitely not cheating and definitely not using Daisy Reversi - I had never heard of the program before (and doubt it is as good as Mouse which used to play on GGS anyhow). I used to play othello competitively in the mid to late 90's, and participated in two world championships (Athens 1997 and New York 2001), placing around the middle of the field both times. I was Swedish Champion in 1999. This can be verified online.

    Am I being accused of cheating simply because I am a decent player? That does not seem right. I have no plans to resign - and there are better players than me around (I am e.g. losing clearly to Markus Schoretis, who I understand has been active in competitive othello more recently than I have.)

    My main reason for playing 10x10 was that I hoped thereby to mostly avoid both cheaters and accusations of cheating - I remember playing 8x8 online a few years ago, and both were rampant - I had hoped 10x10 would work better as good programs aren't as easily available. Seems not :(

    What should I do?

  • Olivier at 2008-12-11

    Hi, I think there is a kind of paranoia against cheaters because there are a lot of them, playing 8x8 or 10x10 reversi. You also have to understand that the person who send you this message is very upset (and I think he is right) against cheaters.

    Your message is quite explanatory and I think you simply have to tell him that and he will understand.

  • Miguel Pereira da Silva at 2008-12-11

    It may be possible that you donâ??t cheat; somehow I really do believe you. But how come all your moves match (14 up till now) all those of a program 100 %? If you really could play so perfect, then you ought to be the World Champion around the clock. I am also a good player, play since 30 years, said to be one of the best Portuguese, who only did not participate in any WOC up to now, more due to lack of financial means than any other reasons. It is difficult for me to understand that you play so perfect. Iâ??ve played with other players at your level (or at least very close to it, if not above), and they play always with a bit of human feeling, but you not, you play 100 % logical, mathematic. >I never jnew any player until now, who played so well (unless vheaters). Maybe I have a wrong perception of feeling in this caseâ?¦ but my intuition has very seldom proven to be wrong. Iâ??ll end up learning to know wheter you are honest or not. So let us keep playing.

  • ypercube ★ at 2008-12-12

    Miguel, perhaps you should go to the next WOC and play Ola face to face. This will probably clear the discussed matter once and for all.

    Even only from this post by Ola, one can assume that he is someone who wouldn't cheat, and Miguel agrees as I see (“somehow I really do believe you”).

    It's not so unnatural for two players (even one human and one machine) to agree in 14 opening moves. It happens in chess all the time. Either the programmers of Daisy Reversi have programmed it to think with a human style, or Ola has a mathematical thinking or he applies strict rules in his opening moves.

    The awful situation in 8x8 Reversi at golem has driven some players into paranoia I think. I doubt there are programs really expert at 10x10, playing at champion level, like the level WZebra plays at 8x8. (except mine of course, but I haven't set her to play at golem championship, yet :)

  • isometry at 2008-12-12

    That's right, 14 moves is not very convincing. Besides, Daisy Reversi is not particularly strong (at least not the trial version).

    I know Ola and I'm sure he wouldn't cheat (and doesn't need to).

  • Ola Mikael Hansson at 2008-12-12

    Olivier: Thanks for your advice. Seems it worked well.

    Miguel: Thanks for letting us play on. I hope that with time you will become convinced that I do not cheat. (Btw - interesting with your comment about playing logical and mathematical - I do come from a mathematics background, and when I was active on the Swedish othello scene, one of the other players who was a proponent of 'creative' and 'interesting' moves sometimes called my style boring.)

    ypercube: Unfortunately, I doubt I'll ever go to any more WOC; partly because I've stopped playing real-life tournaments, but also, I think the average level has increased, and I am not sure I would succeed in qualifying any longer even if I tried

    isometry: Is that Jan-Kristian Haugland?

  • ypercube ★ at 2008-12-12

    isometry or Tasmanian Devil or …

    You can follow the link trail from his profile page.

  • isometry at 2008-12-12

    No hyphen! ;-)

  • beppi at 2008-12-12

    I can say that I know Ola since long time from ancient online reversi servers and from live playing. He does not look to me as a cheater, definitely.

  • RoRoRo the Bot at 2008-12-12

    You got accused of cheating, eh, Ola? That's nothing! [`_']

    I just played a game where the only thing my opponent said during the

    game was “MAGGOT” on his/her final resigning move, and he/she then

    send me a private message that just said “RUDE MORON”.

    You humans have got it easy…

  • movieloverxxl at 2009-01-03

    quote ypercube

    “The awful situation in 8x8 Reversi at golem has driven some players into paranoia I think. I doubt there are programs really expert at 10x10, playing at champion level, like the level WZebra plays at 8x8. (except mine of course, but I haven't set her to play at golem championship, yet :) "

    The time is there, unfortunately!

  • Miguel Pereira da Silva at 2009-01-04

    My message to the Webmaster: Hello Richard! I ask you please, if possible, to exclude following players of my game list: Dr. Flaneur, RJS, Gramiak, Vayamos and gxaxmxe. These players don not play fair, please include them in my Blacklist.

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