four in a row suggestion

I have the suggestion to make the four in a row board 8x8 (instead of the 7x7).
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The reason I suggest this is because with the 7x7 board, people have worked out "patterns" that you make sure you win every game you start with the 7x7 board. If the board was 8x8 (or extra wide - 10x10) - this will eleminate the "middle row" which takes a lot out of the game. ++++++++++ BBW

Now that I read what I wrote above, let me be a little more "blunt and clear"
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On a traditional 7x7 board, in a theory by L. Victor Allis, he concluded in his master thesis that the game is a first player win. (Meaning, that if you go first, you can ALWAYS win). This means with some simple searching, I (or anyone) can easly find this information and "cheat".
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So this is why I suggest making it an 8x8 board - but then again, that is what Its Your Turn uses - so why not be a little different, and make it a 10x10 board? I just think if it stays a 7x7 board, you will find a few people on here who will never lose when they move first! ++++ BBW

BBW!! You beat me to the punch! As soon as I saw the 6x7 board, I said, "Oh no!" and jumped into the forum here to make this same suggestion! You're absolutely correct, 6x7 has been completely 'solved.' Very good. It is indeed a first person win, solved by Victor Allis. Four-in-a-row programs (6x7) can be download that will play perfectly... the first person will always win. I think I have one on my hard drive now. (I'm a big four-in-a-row fan.) Four-in-a-row is a GREAT game and I'm happy to see it here but only as an 8x8 game! 8x8 has NOT been solved and I think it's the pefect size. (I think 10x10 could be an option later... 10x10 is needlessly too large.) Both IYT and GoldToken support 8x8, helping to verify how wonderful the 8x8 game is. I feel so strongly on this I would immediately delete all games in progress and start the monthly cup over with... as 8x8.

opps, I meant to say 6x7 in both of my earlier post, not 7x7 - sorry! :-) That's what I get for trying to get things done after a long day of hot air ballooning! Ugh! :-)

This URL is about Velena, a 6x7 connect four program that plays perfectly: http://www.ce.unipr.it/~gbe/velsrc.html..... Here's a link for a list of solved games: http://www.gameai.com/clagames.html..... James D. Allen also solved connect four. This article is interesting: http://www.cwi.nl/~tromp/c4.html

I totally agree with these posts i play on goldtoken on the 8x8 board and their everyone can beat anyone. But as i look at this and see that programs can be downloaded to cheat i will not sign up for it anymore. I hope they change it....

Yes this is not a good thing with programs to download and cheat and that is what will happen. I play as well at goldtoken on the 8x8 and it gives both opponents a chance for a win with more mobility on your moves...I sure hope Golem fixes this booboo or a lot of good stackers will not sign up for the games....I for one will not anymore until this is changed....

I don't think it's soley a matter of cheating. After all, this server offers chess and reversi, and there are many chess and reversi programs available online that are stronger than most players here, and can help you cheat. In this case I think that four-in-a-row as played on an 8x8 is simply a much more entertaining game. I speak from experience. At IYT I've played more than 500 games of four-in-a-row. (It's called Stack4 there.) Almost 300 of these games were tournament games. In high school I played a lot of "Connect Four" on the 6x7 board, and the 8x8 board makes for a far more interesting game. In fact, after more than 500 games on the 8x8 board, I still haven't decided whether I think it's an advantage to go first or second!! Amazing! I can't even say that about chess!

I've often wished I had invented "Connect Four." Think about it. It's a very simple, simple concept, yet it a suprisingly deep and subtle game. A true abstract classic, that will probably still be played 100 years from now. How wonderful it must be to invent something so simple, yet so deep.

One of the amazing things (to me) is the rarity of the number of draws on an 8x8 board. As I mentioned earlier, I've played more than 500 games of four-in-a-row at IYT. (517 to be exact.) In all of these games, only three of them ended in a draw. Just three. That's less than 1%.

yes and look at all the variations you can develope with 8x8. So many different strategies their are i never get bored with it. Maybe they can post a poll on it or something...

True Justice the 8x8 has more options for moves I have never understood why a 7x6 it makes absolutely now sense whatsoever. And the poll idea is fabulous! If you are gonna add a new game then ask the people who are gonna be playing it what version they prefer :-)

I change rules for four in a row - new games are on 8x8 board. If will be in future strong program I change rules again - it is best prophylaxis against cheating.
Choosing proper variant is not easy - specially when there are a lot of variants: [1] Backgammon - play one game or match ? [2] Draughts/Checkers play normally or two games match with special opening [3] Mancala games - the are really a lot of variants ....[4] Gomoku/Pente/Renju ... ???

thnx 4 changing the board :-)

bump