SON?

Ok, I give. What's the SON score on the tournament pages mean and how is it calculated?

Thanks.

"If 2 players get the same points, the 'Son' is considered. The 'Son' is the sum of the following products. For each opponent (the score you got against him) times (the points of the opponent). So in fact a win against a better player should be more valuable then a win against the last in the tourney."

Copied/pasted straight from the FAQ :-)

The name Son comes form 'Sonneborn' which invented the whole thing

I meant 'who invented...'

That's a reasonable tiebreak system, but for games where draws are possible such as chess, the top two finishers in a tournament could have the same Son score (e.g. they drew against each other and beat everyone else.) Is there a secondary tiebreak system? In all the tournaments played here, I would be surprised if this situation never came up.

sonneborn-berger actually. it's the fide and uscf main tie breaker for round robin chess tournaments. it's hard to come up with something better for a game like chess. thats why tie-breaks in important round-robin chess tournaments are usually resolved with mini rapid-play matches.

As for ties, that are not broken with Son, the situation where 3 players win all their games against others, and win and lose one games in there 3 games happen a lot.
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There is another tie breaker which is used very rarely. Only to decide the line-up of championships next round when the 5th and the 6th tie, and 4 players advance to that group the tie between 5th and 6th is broken by the rating. In MC and RT a ex aequo first place (considering points, and Son) is treathed as equal.

Okay, so if there is a tie for first place in the first round of a monthly championship, do both (or all three)players advance? If there is a three-way tie, as you describe, in a lower league of a golem championship, do all three players advance? Or would ratings be used there as well? Thanks...

As it says in the rules. At least two advance to next lvl. That is, if the second player is tied with third (and perhaps even the fourth), they advance together with the no.1.

Except if that would bring the 3th of the previous group losing his place... (Which would mean for instance that the second place is a three-way in both second leagues, 8 people would advance, in that case the line up of the next first round should be the 3 best of the first league, the 2 winners of the second leagues and the 4 best rated guys of the 6 second place players... the reason I'll try to explain in the next message.......

Considering another treath in the forum when a championship is completed a list is made as follows. Using as tie breakers the points and the SON (so ties are very likely) the places in a league are decided.
So in second and lower leagues, there will be 2 (or more) people satisfying "" (It means the winners of the second league, which ar at least 2, but in case of ties more.)-----------
Between 2 with the same code that way (either by tying in the same group or finishing at the same place in different groups, the order is the order of the 'rating'!)
Then make the following list:
...
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Generally it should mean (there are unlikely ties which would break every system (9-way tie in a group....)) that 'top 3 at least stay in there league','first 2 advance'

Rereading Richards text I don't know myself anymore.... Richard decides anyway!

Could someone post how the SON is calculated? I've been searching and trying to figure it out myself, but I have been unable to. (Or point to a website that explains it). THANKS! ++++++ BBW

The SON is calculated as follow: The sum of: Your score agianst a person times that persons score. Ex. If You tied against one that has 7 points, You get 7 SON. If You've won against one that has 4 points You get 8 SON. Together they result in 15 SON. Was that clear enough or should I try to explain better?

THANKS - That explains it. I was trying to figure out if I would win the GWG championship even if I lose my last match - so now I'm able to do the math and find out! Thanks again. ++++++BBW

You're welcome :)

BBW, I considered you a smart guy, but that you didn't find it yourself, nor find it on the website (FAQ), and in this very topic....

Hum.... I did search the FAQ's - the only thing I found was the very last line which says: "The exact formulas are not really interesting" - which does not help me when I was interested in the formulas! :-)

As I search through the FAQ a little more, it is in there - stuck in the middle under the "What are the different tournaments?" section. :-) ++++BBW

The exact formulas... is about the rating not about the Son... Sorry, we should put the question in

bump