Seeding Monthly champions into first league

Richard said:

"I plan new feature: winners of monthly cup will be play in next championship in 1st league."

Will this apply to other games besides Go? Is it possible the first league will contain more than nine players? Or will ratings be used more frequently to resolve tie breaks, in those cases where Son does not work? How many monthlies take place between championships, anyway? I guess it depends on the game...

Good guess DAvid... In average each month a monthly ends (this is less obvious then at first sight, but then again very clear anyway)... So depending on the number of months the monthly costs....

Yes, of course, monthly tournaments will tend to complete at the average
rate of once per month, assuming each monthly will take on average the
same amount of time to complete as any other. But attendance continues
to grow, so that would tend to indicate that monthlies will
have more and more groups, and therefore may take longer and longer
to complete. At any rate, the answer to my question, "how many monthlies
will complete between championships," depends much more on what game
you're talking about. The 2nd 9x9 Go championship started just a couple
months after the first one started, whereas the first 19x19 Go
championship is still going on, more than 5 months after it started.
Seeding 5 monthly champs into the first league, plus the 1st and 2nd
places from the two groups in the 2nd league, would fill up all 9 slots
without any room for the previous champion, assuming these are all
different people. Of course there are plenty of ways to resolve this
potential problem. For example, just seed winners from the more recent
monthlies. Maybe just the last two months. Also, use a secondary
tiebreaking system such as ratings, in case Son does not work, to
insure that only 1 winner from each monthly, and only 2 from each of
the 2nd league groups, advance to first league. This way, if you
reach at least 3rd place in a first league tournament, you will be
assured of remaining in first league. How does this sound?

Somewhere it is mentionned that the top3 of a league never go down, with 2 monthly winners, the 3 top players of the first league and the best 2 of each of the second league, the league is already filled (without any ties, only 2 monthly cups, a player arriving 4th in a championship couldn't compete in the next championship) That is strange (but not impossible)... I guess any idea on championships would give some good players not much chance (like new chess players here, have to start in 4th league, I guess)

But that is asuming the winners of MC isn't in the first league or the winners of 2:nd league. Then there would be more that stays in the 1:st league.

I think the Championship rules should stay as they are: New championship players added to the lower leagues in order of rating.

i agree with clark. even though i'm rated #2 and will have to start at the bottom of the upcoming reversi championship. the advantage is that "computer assisted" players who will eventually also come to this site might bother to get themselves at the top of the ratinglist, but they don't have the patience to work themselves up 3 or more levels of the championship. that way the golem championship will always keep its true value

I also think it should stay.... Being in the first league of the championship is for people who stay on Little Golem for longer time... the new players can first try to win RT's and MC's, and get to the top of the rating.

The FAQ says that the Championship is
"the only way to show your [sic!] the best".
But you haven't shown you're the best if your main rivals were forced to play down in the lower levels.
We need ways to ensure that the best players get a chance to compete for the Championship sooner rather than later,
otherwise the Championship itself is devalued.
Richard's suggestion of seeding recent Monthly Cup winners into the main championship tournament is therefore a step in the right direction.

maybe the FAQ needs to change to say it is "long term" champion. I was thinking about what I read here and agree that the Champion is a for those willing to work their way to the top.

Either way Richard wants to go is fine with me; Even though this may mean I won't be in the first league for the next Hex championship when perhaps I could have, I don't mind very much having to work my way up. It's just a board game, after all; although I do tend to forget. It's Richard's site; he can set it up anyway he wants.

I agree with you David. If people think they should be in the first league, they should work for it!

I would find it much nicer if you do such a thing for second league (in most game new players have to start in third or 4th league). You could put MC winners in the second league (if it is an advantage)....

I like the idea of monthly champions getting seeded to 1st league. I think in practise there will be much overlap anyway, and it will add meaning to the monthly cups.
If a person comes last in the 1st league but won a monthly cup will he stay in the first league? (I think he should).

I thought it was called monthly championship because it was the best player for that month. Why not have a yearly champion based on monthly champions and leave the current championship alone. What are we trying to fix?

What ain't broken? :-)

What ain't broken? :-)

I like that idea... the 12 MC winners letting play in one yearly cup, and leave the champ's as it is. I saw there is no where a 4th league anyway.........

I understand the arguments to put the MC winners in the 1st league, but I still think the 4th in the previous championship should be in 1st league as well, and there is no way to garantee that if you put the MC winners in.

What are we trying to fix?

When a strong player comes to the site they have
to play in the lowest league, against beginners. Most
likely they will be bored and drop-out and that would
be a waste. (the beginners may feel it unfair, or may
love the lesson).

Winning a monthly cup could be a short-cut for those stronger
players (2-3 months instead of 6-8 months for two championships),
while still requiring them to prove themselves.

Personally, I'll probably drop out of the Championship series if this comes to pass.

Lets play with the idea. If the Championchip takes 6 months. Then You have six monthly Cup winners/CS turn. In the most extreme there would be six newcomers that have won theese MC's. So wich are to play in the first league? Thoose six and number one two three in previous first league (noone advance from second league)? Or the three best from second league (leaving none from previous first league)? Or should the first league have more than 9 players? As one can see this wouldn't work. This example is highly unlikly, but it shows some of the problems with such a system.

It was that kind of thinking that brought me to proposing them to meet in second league.
Anyway, if MC winners get this, why not the leader in the rating (considering everyone started from the same point) or the most tourney winner...
I think we should keep the championship seperate from the other games on the site, and consider them as something for longterm players. Okay there will be line-ups where it is clear from the start that one would win or loose any game played (I'm in a Go second league, with players which are at least 12 kyu higher then me!). So be it!

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