discussing B1: vacation days.

I would like newbies to have only 5 days when starting

Everyone regenerates one day for two weeks without taking vacation with maximum 20.

Members get 30 days when they pay membership, and that is there maximum.

I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been more discussion on this!

There doesn't seem really any reason why completely new players (defined, say, as 'those who have never finished a game') should get vacation days at all. A number of players sign up for LG, naturally enough sign up for tournaments, and then forgivably enough forget about the site - this is fine! But realistically, when you notice you are playing an opponent who has not logged in since their sign-up day, the likelihood of their coming back is fairly slim.

In fact, rewarding a new player's first 10 won games with a vactation day each could even be a helpful encouragement to new blood?

correct

I'm slightly opposed to the '10 WON games' concept. Maybe 10 finished games with at least n moves each instead?

I agree, but only if the number of vacation days for each player is public. At least as it is now, you know that a player who lost on time in March has 0 vacation days now. If vacation days could be gained at any time, it would be much harder to guess how many vacation days your opponents have. I know I may be taking games here too seriously, but I have never analyzed games so in depth before, and that makes time management so important.

I'm not saying this is a bad or a good thing but, if the number of remaining vacation days of other players is known, I will probably adjust my strategy in some games accordinly, e.g., avoinding to play during the weekend if I know by experience that my opponent seldomly connects on LG during 'work-days'.

Is this a proper strategy? While in a face-to-face game it can be reasonable to play a certain way against a player with hardly any time left, it seems sorta mean to set up your opponents to fail based on when you know they're able to play. Just play your best move, let the rest sort itself out.

Anyway, I'd be okay with new players having fewer vacation days... except that I totally forgot about LG when I first signed up, then I came back and cleaned up that first tourney, finishing my games ahead of people who had been playing the entire time. But I'm probably the exception, since now I'm obsessed with this place. :)

lol. Talking about obsession... I found LG in November (2009), and I have completed 3800+ games... spending about 6 to 8 hours on a weekday here, and more on the weekends. It has begun to affect my work performance, so I scaled down to 200 - 300 running games. Still love it!

But back to the topic at hand: I think vacation days should come during the year, kind of continuously, not in a 20/30-day block at Jan 1. That seems to result in a big heaping up of games in January, as all the one-timers use up their vacation. I had over a hundred games won by timeout on Jan 21. Thats ugly.

What about 5 days every quarter, to make it still easy and a bit smoother? or 2 every 1st of a month?

I think it was Abigail who proposed 2 days per month during which you'd completed (played to completion and with more than a minimum number of moves) a certain number of games. Possibly that addition was cancelled if you'd timed out in any games that month, in order to bring about a more abrupt termination.

I certainly like the idea of earning vacation days by being a good LG-izen, and them being more smoothly distributed through the year.

It MAY be a good idea to give fewer games to absolute newbies, but I think a "smooth distribution through the year" is a bad idea. I mean, when you go on vacation, THAT'S when you'll be needing most of your vacation days. It's not uncommon to use a few vacation days in spring, and then 15-20 in the summer...

Take a step back and think about that again - if you're not taking vacations during the other parts of the year, you'll be *accumulating* days. If you take nothing after your summer holiday you'll be carrying days over to the next year, and will have plenty accumulated by summer when you need them.

Does anybody here not have a mobile phone?

Could the same have been claimed ten years ago?

My point is we'll all eventually have the current generation of phone (at least), and by then there will be a cell tower on Mt. Everest, so no excuse for not playing while on holiday. :)

I utterly disagree with the last remark...

when on holiday there is a important excuse for not playing...

your on holiday...

on holiday you can do whatever you want (within ethical and legal boundaries, that is)...

Also, LG 'holiday' is not automatically a real holiday.

I (for example) have to do frequent international business trips together with customers, which takes most of my time away - after work, I have to entertain them. That leaves the time between 1 am and 6 am for playing, fourteen days in a row, being jet-lagged and tired and sometimes under the influence. In addition, using your cellphone in a foreign country cost you a leg and and arm; I once did play about an hour on LG, and paid over 180 $ for it (ever heard about data roaming?)

I love to play here and I miss it, but there are situations where it is just too high a price to pay (and I don't mean the money).

And - what was probably meant - some people really want to have vacation in their vacation. NO computers, cell phones, etc.

Phil: Well, as of today, all vacation days are reset at January 1. That could be changed, of course, but as the system works today, I say my point is valid. Also, what about people who sign up for LG during spring? Surely they, too, will have the need for summer holidays? Also, one year I may like to take vacation late, say maybe a fall vacation in october, and next year maybe it's my Easter vacation thet will be long. It MAY be Hard to save up enough days (ok, I suppose that's really a problem with the situation today as well, although the other way arond). I'm not saying the system as is is perfect, though - just to think through every consequense of changing it, so that if we do, the new system becomes as good as possible.

pfapfap: At my cabin, where I spend much of my holiday, it's all but impossible to get a phone call through - not to mention trying to get an internet connection! Also, as Hjallti pointed out, there are several other reasons for not playing while on holiday.

Why would you not want to play LG while on holiday? You should want to do nothing but! If this site is work for you, then find another hobby. :)

Think how many wireless internet stations there were ten years ago, and how many phones supported it. Think of today. Project ten years in the future. It's only going to become easier and cheaper to access the site.

Marius - the whole point about discussing changes to the system was to discuss things that are different from the current system - the stuff that's true "as of today" is what we're trying to change!

Of course, Phil. But since we probably aren't trying to make an entirely different site, I guess we want to leave most of the things the way they are. So I assume misunderstandings can arise about what parts of the system we are trying to change, and what parts are outside the scope.

Again, you've simply not thought about this enough. If the frequency of apportioning vacation days is changed, then it's a smaller change to make everything to do with vacations follow that new frequency, rather than having some things monthly (e.g. apportioning) and some things yearly (e.g. capping). I.e. changing everything is simpler (and more sensible) than changing only part.

I think you should re-read your original post, Phil: "I certainly like the idea of earning vacation days by being a good LG-izen, and them being more smoothly distributed through the year". I'm sure you agree that this can be interpreted in several ways. It could mean you have a certain number of vacation days every month (or every three months, or whatever), resetting them every month. It could mean ADDING new vacation days every month, with or without restarting at new years. In short, there is not only one unique way to interpret this.

Anyway, back to the actual discussion: I think if we change the system, we should keep the property that it is easy to accumulate the maximum number of days before actually going on vacation - if one uses no (or very few) vacation days for a certain period before this vacation.

I think Marius is right here: "if we change the system, we should keep the property that it is easy to accumulate the maximum number of days before actually going on vacation" - I doubt anyone disagrees with this. I think the current system is successful w/r/t existing, established players, although others are welcome to disagree.

Does anyone strongly disagree with either of the following statements:

Giving new players fewer vacation days at first, and rewarding them with vacation days for some form of "being a good LG-izen", would be a generally good thing? If we're all in agreement, we can move forward and just argue about the exact specifics :)

@gpallis: I do agree with that

"we should keep the property that it is easy to accumulate the maximum number of days before actually going on vacation"

Disagree strongly, for the reasons stated many times before.