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Again less active players... :-(

Public forum discussion.

General

#1 · Aganju

8 Aug 2011

You might not like it (I don't), but the fact is that the number of active players on LG has shrunk again.

Today I updated my profile page, and during that process I check my position and total number of active players in all games:

The total is now down to 10126, about 5% less that four month ago (when I did that last time). When I started doing this 15 month ago, we had over 12000...

What's happening? people focus on less games? It is less interesting? LG has some new games, so the total should grow, but it still shrinks.

Main (and only) growing games since April:

+30% Shogi

+20% OSKI

Main shrinking games:

-10% Reversi

-10% Reversi 10x10

-10% GWG

- 9% D&B

#2 · MisterCat

8 Aug 2011

Well, I'm just delighted that this place is HERE, and there are players to play and games to enjoy! 10,000 ain't bad, by the way.

I don't know enough about each individual game to offer general comments. Each game is different, and the situations are different.

Chess has lots of competing sites, and many offer live play, as opposed to correspondence. This is not an issue for ME, since I prefer to play live games face to face. However, I don't think I speak for a majority; lots of players count on the internet for live competition (and so, tournament attendance is down, and many historic yearly tournaments are being discontinued).

Fortunately, computer dominance does not appear to have killed the game, as some feared it might - however, it certainly does create new problems for players and tournament organizers to deal with.

I suspect that some games have simply been ruined in popularity thanks to the work of computer scientists and mathematicians who 'solve' them. I'm not necessarily saying this is a 'bad' thing, but simply a fact of life. Thus Checkers, Connect-4, Qubic go 'bye-bye' - and I'm just not certain of the effect on Othello. It's nice that we have unsolved variants here - but I think that the only thing keeping these safe from those 'evil' eggheads is that lack of popularity; for example, if 8x8 Four in a Row were to be released commercially and foster tournaments, you can be sure those folks would accept the new challenge of solving it, and creating computer champions.

It's cool that Twixt is still safe; I'm not convinced that it's complexity is the issue keeping is safe; more so I think that it remains obscure and under the radar.

And I can't really address the other games - the word games, etc. specifically.

However, I WILL say that I've observed what appears simply to be a cultural change. Young people do not have the patience to sit and analyze strategy games like these, nowadays. What they want is action and adventure - and play computer games where things are always exploding. I used to work with a fellow who was a pretty good Chess player - good at other intellectual games as well - but now spends practically ALL his spare time playing Worlds of Warcraft. I see this a lot. My brother plays Chess, but would rather devote his time to 'adventure' type games - you know, where you get to higher levels by killing dragons and remembering to pick up the magic sword on level 3 to defeat the evil gremlin on level 6 (ad nauseum).

Then there's the money issue; how many good Chess players give up the game to focus on playing Poker? Lots and lots.

I've seen people leave Chess to play Magic The Gathering; maybe it's a social issue.

I remember some 20 years ago, there was a cafe in the Rogers Park area of Chicago; nice place, had music some nights (I performed there); coffee during the days, wine and beer in the evening - and there was a healthy crowd of game players there, every day - mostly playing Go. I have no idea if that place still exists - but I recently did an internet search to see if there were any clubs around the area of New York, New Jersey, etc. where one could play Go (a game I would like to learn); I found NOTHING, save for a few organizations in some colleges.

So that leaves us. And - are we relics, with no future; waiting for our 10,000 members to die of old age? I hope not, but don't discount this possibility, and I'm sorry to be so depressing.

But as I age, I see the world changing around me all the time; I'm starting to feel like a walking anachronism. The MisterCat of 2011 won't have any place to fit in in 2111. Fortunately I won't have to.

(meow)

#3 · Aganju

8 Aug 2011

I don't want to bring you down further, but the 10126 is the sum of active players for all games. Many of them are the same players over and over again - like me playing in all games, I'm counted for each one.

If the average player here is into 5 games, that makes it 2000 in total.

The largest group is still Go:

1031 Go

763 Chess

668 Gomoku

657 StreetSoccer

578 Connect 6

Smallest is:

112 Oski

182 Shogi (but growing strongly)

268 WYPS (gone down a lot since the rules changed like every Tuesday)

#4 · Rex Moore

8 Aug 2011

It's best if you can compare year-over-year... that is, compare one month to the same month in the prior year. Being down 5% from four months ago may just be a normal summer drop-off as people spend more time outside. The summer is always slower for the online business I'm in, also.

I'm not saying you are incorrect in your assumption that there is a decline, but it is possible.

#5 · pfafulous

8 Aug 2011

Remember, we had tourneys in every game at the beginning of the year. Maybe that's a factor?

We're more and more becoming an ADD culture. Who has time to wait a day or more for a turn, when we can throw some grumpy fowl around? Besides, things grow and change. Who's on IRC any more?

But I love it here. I wouldn't be playing Go as much were it not for this site and the iPhone optimization. Thanks for the site, and thanks everybody for playing! I see a few new faces in Go lately, even...

#6 · Hjallti

8 Aug 2011

I would suppose the activity shrinks in July and August because of summer in northren hemishpere.... I am playing less now... It might be that I played in almost all games (chess probably not :-) ) in Febr and only in few in August and that I do this every year like this.

#7 · Aganju

8 Aug 2011

That would be a nice theory, but - as said above - 15 months ago the number was > 12000, and it is going slightly down ever since. I didn't keep the full records, but I remember it went down every time.

#8 · jim O

8 Aug 2011

can you guys tell me how and where you guys get your numbers? i wanted to do some research for streetsoccer players.....thank you

jo

#10 · kingofthebesI

9 Aug 2011

How many of these accounts were Jamaica?

Does not having separate rating for different games discourage players playing a variant that will hurt the hard fought rating?

Is the economic state of the world meaning that players are under more pressure at work and thus have less time to devote to games?

#11 · Dvd Avins

9 Aug 2011

I think it is incorrect that playing a rating game is required to not be dropped. I think merely connecting to Little Golem stops one from being dropped from all games.

#12 · Goldorak

13 Aug 2011

Hey Mistercat,

If u wana improve your go skills, just play for exemple on KGS (Kiseido Go Server), an online go server...there u'll find opponents of any level...strong players will review your games hopefully, and u can find as well free audio lessons with pros sometimes ,or even get paying lessons from a professional player at reasonable price there...

#14 · MisterCat

13 Aug 2011

Goldorak; thanks for info; I have no Go skills to improve upon, since I've never played a game in my life - but DO own a set. It's why I wanted to find a place to play it live.

I could, of course, play it here; read a book of instructions (I own two) and play a game as a beginner; I could do that with any of the games I don't play, but find that nowadays I just don't have the extra time. Maybe someday.

mc

#15 · erratic

13 Aug 2011

> does kgs have rated 9x9 and 13x13 games?

No. KGS has a rating system that is often criticized but works like a Swiss watch compared to LG's.

For many reasons already discussed in this list, including: both games have different depth in terms of SD (In other words: if the range from a beginner to a pro in 19x19 is say 4000 Elo points in 9x9 the same range may be 2400, so merging simply doesn't work), 9x9 go is dominated by computers, etc. joining both is a terrible idea.

The author of KGS probably thought it was not worth creating a 13x13 or 9x9 rating and therefore, only 19x19 rating exists.

#16 · MRFvR

15 Aug 2011

@erratic: "KGS has a rating system that is often criticized but works like a Swiss watch compared to LG's". Hardly. If you're refering to LG's rating system as applied to go, that might be true, but if you're comparing KGS's to LG's general I must disagree. Specially, games played only in a board size have a very consistent rating. IMHO even EFN (with three differnt set of rules and three different game lengths for one of the sets) have a very reliable rating here at LG.

#17 · erratic

15 Aug 2011

Yes, I admit. I only talk about go. The comparison is unfair.

#18 · 149am

19 Aug 2011

even less active players in dots and boxes :(

#19 · pfafulous

19 Aug 2011

Go is bumping lately! With new players gamesorry and nrx in multiple tournaments, in addition to people like Gerald and me joining tourneys again, we're about to pass July's tourney count already.

#20 · Marius Halsor

31 Oct 2011

Since we just passed 25000 players, I though bumping this would sober up some people...

#21 · Duke of Prunes

31 Oct 2011

I disagree. Unfortunately, "registered" players ≠ "active" players.

#22 · Marius Halsor

31 Oct 2011

Thus, you actually AGREE, since I meant sober up the OPTIMISTS, who thought we had so many players. Sorry about the confusion :-)