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Shogi: Are repetition of position and impasse implemented, or are players to agree?

Public forum discussion.

Chess

#1 · David J Bush

20 Aug 2010

In rare instances a shogi game may be declared a draw. If the same position occurs four times, it is a draw UNLESS perpetual check is involved, in which case the player delivering perpetual check loses. Also due to the forward movement nature of most of the pieces, if both players achieve "entering king" which means the king has entered the promotion zone on the far side of the board, Then the pieces are given point scores. Rooks and bishops are 5 points, the rest except the king are 1 point each, the king is 0 points. If both players have at least 24 points worth of pieces it's a draw. If one side has less than 24 points, that side loses.

Does the server recognize these rare cases?

#2 · Richard Malaschitz

20 Aug 2010

Only first rule is accepted.

Second rule is complicated, because both players must agree with end of game. Far better is rule (Hidetchi mention this rule in one video from his series), where player is winner when his king reach middle field in last row. This rule has support between several shogi profesional too.

#3 · David J Bush

20 Aug 2010

So if your king reaches the opposing king's starting square you win? That sounds better than counting points. Could the king walk into check when entering this square? In shogi, technically the object is not checkmate, it is to capture the opposing king.

#5 · David J Bush

20 Aug 2010

Thanks for the link. I have difficulty watching You Tube, but I got my answer from the 81 Square Universe forum. The king may not enter check when entering the opposing throne.

I would be in favor of implementing this rule, called the "Try rule," to deal with situations where one or both kings have entered the opponent's camp. The server should be able to handle all game positions.

#7 · antony

23 Aug 2010

with no right to enter opposing throne while in check?

#8 · Richard Malaschitz

23 Aug 2010

Yes. It is similar as Dobutsu Shogi. In Dobutsu Shogi you can enter to field in check, but opponent can take King and win.

#9 · Ray Garrison

28 Aug 2010

is there a try rule for mini shogi? If so, where is the "throne"

#10 · Richard Malaschitz

4 Sep 2010

Yes. There is try rule for mini shogi implemented too. Thrones are fields where are king on start of game.

#11 · antony

10 Sep 2010

I just won a try-rule mini-shogi game (http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1222114) (is this the first ever?), which makes me think that try rule is perhaps unnecessary in mini-shogi. The board is very small, and only 2 pieces out of 5 are weak for backwards attack (whereas the ratio is much bigger in regular shogi, and more pieces are actually useless for backwards attack), so I don't see how an impasse situation could develop. On the other hand, it feels that the try rule gave me a much easier win (checkmating my opponent would have taken much more time, as despite my material advantage, he still had some defensive resources).

#12 · somar96

10 Sep 2010

I didn't know about the King to last row rule... could have won :(

#13 · Julius Sneezer

10 Sep 2010

somar, i think it's not the last row but the opposing king's starting square, which is on the last row ...

#15 · antony

11 Sep 2010

Yes. Actually I thought you knew that rule and were trying to go for a win with it, as your king was quite advanced.

#16 · somar96

11 Sep 2010

But is it the whole row or just the other king start place?

#17 · antony

12 Sep 2010

Only the other king's start place. Else I would have defended against your win...

#18 · somar96

12 Sep 2010

Ok thanks :-) will know next time