New EinStein variants

New Tournaments created:

Backward and Black Hole

Richard, I encountered a bug in the forum:

if you delete the first post of a topic, the forum subject don't get attached to the next post and no topic can be viewed anymore... luckily I had a link in my history to remove second one... and recreate this topic.

Where is a description of the rules?

EinStein with Black Hole means that the

central square (c3) is a black hole.

You can move your stone there, but it will

never come back (and is out of the game).

For "Backward" I think captures (and only captures)

are not only allowed in the three forward directions

but in all 8 neighbour squares of the current square.

Ingo.

Has the board flipped too? RoRoRo's completely unable to play, as he is completely convinced that its 3 has already won the frame in

[game;id:1119793;move:38;title:blue to not move and win in zero]

Yes, I flip board for blue player (similar as in other games). You can try for bot address http://www.littlegolem.net/get_xml.jsp?login=RoRoRo&password=******

What is the "match length" in "Black Hole"

and "backward"? Best of 5?

Ingo.

Great thanks to you both Ingo and Richard for the new variants. Very nice. Please play with me :-))) <- This to all... :-))

RoRoRo now accepts invitations to Black hole variant games

Ok, now I got it. The board is flipped always in the way

that the player sees HIS/HER stones in the lower right corner.

Good idea.

And one more request:

Richard, can you make it that way that the

player has HIS/HER stones always in the same color,

for instance always in red?!

Ingo.

I don't find that a really good idea. It would certainly confuse someone who tries to see one's games while not logged in.

It may also confuse discussions (Red plays that and Blue replies that move).

@ypercube: Hmm. I see your point.

I have another proposal on the Black Hole variant.

When you move a stone into the black hole the

notation says c4-c3 (for instance). Instead

of "-" it would be nice to have another (new)

symbol for entering the black hole, for instance

c4Oc3 or c4Qc3 or c4@c3

Ingo.

C4-@ seems more logical (naming the black hole @ rather than c3).

c4x@ or more funny @xc4

I was in fact wondering to play always from under to above (this would actually require the board to be orientated with a diagonal in the vertical-scree direction! (like diamond on cards) I always thought that would be the correct way to put down the board when playing at home.

Historically, RoRoRo has been using "@" to refer to nonexistent things.

This was nothing visual, it was just because its ASCII value was adjacent to the real values being used.

Hjallti wrote:

> C4-@ seems more logical (naming the black hole @ rather

> than c3).

> c4x@ or more funny @xc4

Nice ideas.

@xc4 would be somewhat problematic because it seems

to imply that the Black Hole is wandering (or even

wondering?!).

c4-@ would be my first choice right now.

Ing@

If there was a standard sign for the inverse of x (x^(-1) not 1/x) it would even be better I found @xc4 funny because the black hole takes the stone.

I would vote for c4-@ or for c4-c3@ in case the author of the game decides to make variants later with more than one black hole (in larger boards maybe?).

But c4-@ maybe enough even for that case, as long as there is a description at the start of the game (or in sgf format) that includes the location(s) of black holes.

> But c4-@ maybe enough even for that case

As long as stones who jumped into Black Holes

never come back it is not necessary for the

course of the game to know into which Black Hole.

Ing@

In fact I wondered over this a bit more.

It would just be better to use > and < for captures rather than X.

You could see it as a eating mouth:

A regular capture would be d4br>while d4>d3 would be (d4 moving onto d3 and been captured)

In chess and checkers it is always the mover that captures of course.

c4>@ looks like diving in anyway.

This make me think of Stratego (c) somehow. Do they note moves in stratego?

What about the following generalization of

backward captures: A stone is also allowed

to capture itself: it just disappears!

-....

some time ago I thought about the next rule: when you move and as a result two stones are in the same cell, both disappear.

it makes killing yourself more devastating, but the dilemma "will you kill me or will I kill you?" vanishes...

what do you think?

if one of back three is selected at first move I always start taking one of my stones, so that might become even my standard opening. Especially if the selected stone has to move to 1 or 6 otherwise.

I wouldn't do this as generalization to the backwards, but as one additional rule to the original.

suicidal EinStein?

Would a 10 (=4th triangle number) stone 7x7 be interesting Ingo?

> ... as one additional rule to the original.

> suicidal EinStein?

>

> Would a 10 (=4th triangle number) stone 7x7 be interesting Ingo?

"Suicidal EinStein" might mean that you have to

make a self-capture whenever you can.

For this, 7x7 board, 10 stones each, and 10-die

might be appropriate.

Ingo.

Actually I meant them as separate question. 10 stones and a 6-die would be funny. You could take -1,0,7 and 8 stones... the problem would be that the 6 actual opening stones would be more alike than in the game now.

What about a combination of backwards capture and black hole?

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 51/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 22 00 22 20 02 00 2= 0182040.47%0.07%2muggel_b(1638)2 0-0 02 02 20 2= =2 >2 2< =1615212.56%1.02%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 02 =0 22 2= >161480.73%0.24%4Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 2-0 00 02 0< >2 22 =14124005ypercube(1831)2 00 00 22 2-= 2= <2 0> == <1215641.62%2.21%6Hjallti(1671)0 02 02 22 2= 0-> == == =< <101528.08%0.82%7CleverHunk(1550)2 2= =0 =0 2= <> =-< >> >= >61000.08%0.03%8FatPhil(1711)0 20 >2 0< >0 2= =< >-= =< =69218.72%1.89%9Bernhard Herwig(1714)2 00 00 00 0> == => >= =-= >2360.02%0.00%10Roy78(1634)= 2< == >0 == << <= >< == >-23614.25%0.79%

RoRoRo was asked to follow the final round of BlackHole variant.

Good action, and my winning chances are still intact:

at 0.47 %!

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• FatPhil 2 - 0 muggel_b
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 52/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 22 00 22 22 00 00 2= 0182080.47%0.06%2muggel_b(1638)2 0-0 02 02 20 22 0= =2 2< =161567.11%1.02%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 22 =2 2= >161520.73%0.25%4Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 2-0 00 0< >2 02 22 =141240.01%0.01%5ypercube(1831)2 00 00 22 2-= 22 0= <> == <1216042.10%2.21%6Hjallti(1671)0 02 02 22 2= 0-= => == =< <101528.91%0.81%7FatPhil(1711)0 20 22 0< >0 2= =-> <= =< =812422.79%2.09%8CleverHunk(1550)2 2= =0 =0 2= <> => <-> >= >61000.05%0.01%9Bernhard Herwig(1714)2 00 00 00 0> == == => >-= >2360.01%010Roy78(1634)= 2< == >0 == << << == >= >-23614.27%0.76%

Cool - my victory brings Marius back to life!

However - beware the < and >, there seem to be some issues with all-play-all twice UTs....

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• CleverHunk 0 - 2 FatPhil
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 53/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 22 00 22 22 00 00 2= 0182120.36%0.04%2muggel_b(1653)2 0-0 02 02 20 22 0= <2 2< =161608.37%1.21%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 22 =2 2> >161560.83%0.24%4Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 2-0 00 0< >2 02 22 =141240.01%0.00%5ypercube(1831)2 00 00 22 2-= 22 0= <> == <1216438.98%2.14%6Hjallti(1671)0 02 02 22 2= 0-= => == =< <101528.82%0.80%7FatPhil(1711)0 20 22 0< >0 2= =-> 2= == =1013628.12%2.11%8CleverHunk(1550)2 2= <0 =0 2= <> => 0-> >= >61000.02%0.00%9Bernhard Herwig(1702)2 00 00 00 0> == == => >-= >2360.01%0.00%10Roy78(1645)= 2< => >0 == << <= == >= >-23610.96%0.61%

Minor corrections to the '<' and '>' have been made for subsequent predictions. Note - the prediction percentages weren't in error, only the symbols used to represent the score. When the next one gets published here, it would be nice if people could check the games relevent to them. Thanks.

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• ypercube 2 - 0 Bernhard Herwig
  
• CleverHunk 0 - 2 Matteo A.
  
• Roy78 2 - 0 Bernhard Herwig
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 56/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-2 20 20 22 02 22 00 0= 00 2182240.16%0.02%2Matteo A.(1676)0 0-2 22 02 00 00 22 2> <2 2181720.99%0.35%3muggel_b(1653)2 00 0-2 22 00 22 0= >= =2 2161687.76%0.97%4ypercube(1831)2 00 20 0-2 2= 22 0= >= =2 =1417229.54%2.02%5Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 20 0-0 0< <2 02 =2 2141320.00%06Hjallti(1685)0 02 22 0= 02 2-= => =< >= =101607.87%0.64%7FatPhil(1722)0 22 00 20 2> >= =-> 2= == >1014429.04%2.16%8CleverHunk(1568)2 20 0= <= <0 2< =< 0-= <> =61000.01%09Roy78(1699)= 2< >= == =0 => <= == >-2 =44021.18%0.84%10Bernhard Herwig(1690)2 00 00 00 =0 0= == << =0 =-23600

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• ypercube 2 - 0 Hjallti
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 57/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-2 20 20 22 02 22 00 0= 00 2182280.07%0.00%2Matteo A.(1676)0 0-2 02 22 00 00 22 2> =2 2181761.54%0.55%3ypercube(1831)2 00 2-0 02 22 22 0= >= =2 =1619242.85%2.70%4muggel_b(1653)2 00 02 2-2 00 22 0= >= =2 2161766.70%1.09%5Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 00 2-0 0< <2 02 =2 21413200.00%6Hjallti(1699)0 02 20 02 02 2-= <> =< >= =101601.36%0.20%7FatPhil(1722)0 22 00 20 2> >= >-> 2= == >1014834.99%2.59%8CleverHunk(1568)2 20 0= <= <0 2< =< 0-= <> =61000.00%09Roy78(1649)= 2< == == =0 => <= == >-2 =4408.76%0.47%10Bernhard Herwig(1690)2 00 00 =0 00 0= == << =0 =-23600

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• CleverHunk 0 - 2 muggel_b
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 58/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 22 00 0= 00 2182320.05%0.00%2muggel_b(1653)2 0-0 02 22 00 22 0> 2= <2 2181885.50%1.09%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 22 2> =2 2181841.38%0.61%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 22 22 0= >= =2 =1619245.97%3.20%5Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 20 0-0 0< <2 02 =2 214136006Hjallti(1698)0 02 02 20 02 2-> <> =< >> =101642.94%0.47%7FatPhil(1716)0 20 22 00 2> >< >-> 2= => >1015227.41%2.71%8CleverHunk(1589)2 2< 00 0= <0 2< =< 0-= <> =61000.00%09Roy78(1668)= 2= >< == =0 => <= == >-2 =44012.52%0.56%10Bernhard Herwig(1690)2 00 00 00 =0 0< =< << =0 =-23600

Good bye to rank 1 in this nice tournament.

I will have to leave it within the next 72 hours :-(

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Bernhard Herwig 2 - 0 Hjallti
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 59/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 22 00 00 2= 0182360.05%0.00%2muggel_b(1653)2 0-0 02 22 00 22 0> 22 2= <181965.45%0.91%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 22 22 2> =181921.41%0.51%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 22 22 0= >2 >= =1619649.41%3.13%5Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 20 0-0 0< <2 02 22 =14144006Hjallti(1721)0 02 02 20 02 2-> <> => 0< >101641.64%0.29%7FatPhil(1727)0 20 22 00 2> >< >-> 2> >= =1015228.28%2.74%8CleverHunk(1574)2 2< 00 0= <0 2< =< 0-> == <61000.00%09Bernhard Herwig(1701)2 00 00 00 <0 0< 2< << =-= 04560010Roy78(1655)= 2= >< == =0 => <= == >= 2-4449.82%0.43%

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Hjallti 2 - 0 CleverHunk
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 60/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 22 00 00 2= 0182440.02%02muggel_b(1653)2 0-0 02 22 00 22 0> 22 2= <182005.45%0.92%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 22 22 2> =181921.26%0.52%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 22 22 0= >2 >= =1620450.07%3.28%5Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 20 0-0 0< <2 02 22 =14144006Hjallti(1732)0 02 02 20 02 2-> <2 => 0< >121761.89%0.38%7FatPhil(1727)0 20 22 00 2> >< >-> 2> >= =1015227.49%2.75%8CleverHunk(1574)2 2< 00 0= <0 20 =< 0-> == <6100009Bernhard Herwig(1701)2 00 00 00 <0 0< 2< << =-= 04600010Roy78(1655)= 2= >< == =0 => <= == >= 2-4449.74%0.43%

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Ingo Althofer 0 - 2 Roy78
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 61/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 22 00 00 00 218244002muggel_b(1652)2 0-0 02 22 00 22 0> 2= <2 2182005.45%0.92%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 22 2> =2 2181921.64%0.54%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 22 22 0= >= =2 >1620454.59%3.22%5Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 20 0-0 0= <2 02 >2 214148006Hjallti(1720)0 02 02 20 02 2-> =2 =< >> 0121763.45%0.56%7FatPhil(1742)0 20 22 00 2= >< =-> 2= => >1015219.57%2.16%8CleverHunk(1574)2 2< 00 0= <0 20 =< 0-= <> =6100009Roy78(1670)2 2= >< == =0 <> <= == >-2 <68011.38%0.58%10Bernhard Herwig(1684)2 00 00 00 <0 0< 2< << =0 >-46000

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• FatPhil 2 - 0 Marius Halsor
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 62/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 02 20 00 00 218248002muggel_b(1652)2 0-0 02 22 02 00 2> 2= <2 2182045.48%0.85%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 20 02 2> =2 2181961.47%0.53%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 22 02 2= >= =2 >1620852.51%3.14%5Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 20 0-= 00 02 02 >2 214148006FatPhil(1742)0 20 22 00 2= 2-= <> 2= => >1218021.99%2.44%7Hjallti(1720)0 02 02 20 02 2= >-2 =< >> 0121763.32%0.52%8CleverHunk(1574)2 2< 00 0= <0 2< 00 =-= <> =61000.00%09Roy78(1670)2 2= >< == =0 <= => <= >-2 <68011.29%0.50%10Bernhard Herwig(1684)2 00 00 00 <0 0< << 2< =0 >-46000

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Bernhard Herwig 0 - 2 FatPhil
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 63/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 02 20 00 00 218252002muggel_b(1652)2 0-0 02 22 02 00 2> 2= <2 2182085.22%0.72%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 00 22 00 02 2> =2 2182001.53%0.51%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 02 22 2= >= =2 >1621250.36%3.00%5FatPhil(1755)0 20 22 00 2-2 == <> 2= <> 21418818.71%2.31%6Marius Halsor(1628)0 20 20 20 00 =-0 02 02 >2 214148007Hjallti(1702)0 02 02 20 0= >2 2-2 =< >> 0121762.74%0.38%8CleverHunk(1574)2 2< 00 0= << 00 20 =-= <> =61000.00%09Roy78(1691)2 2= >< == == >0 <> <= >-2 <68017.72%0.61%10Bernhard Herwig(1684)2 00 00 00 << 00 0< 2< =0 >-46000

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Hjallti 2 - 0 FatPhil <--- upset!
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 64/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 22 02 00 00 00 218260002muggel_b(1652)2 0-0 02 20 22 02 0> 2< <2 2182122.66%0.42%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 00 00 22 02 2= =2 2182001.06%0.36%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 22 02 2= >= =2 >1622049.80%2.60%5Hjallti(1666)0 02 02 20 0-2 =2 22 =< >> 0142042.27%0.37%6FatPhil(1755)0 20 22 00 20 =-2 => 2= <> 21418810.50%1.64%7Marius Halsor(1630)0 20 20 20 00 00 =-2 02 >2 214148008CleverHunk(1567)2 2< 00 0= <0 =< 00 2-= <> =6100009Roy78(1714)2 2> >= == => <= >0 <= >-2 <68030.64%0.87%10Bernhard Herwig(1684)2 00 00 00 << 2< 00 0< =0 >-46400

Upset? I'm gutted!

Strange enough my win chances although already low dropped by beating FatPhil... I'll try to loose next time...

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Marius Halsor 2 - 0 FatPhil <--- upset!
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 65/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 22 00 00 00 218264002muggel_b(1652)2 0-0 02 22 00 22 0> 2< <2 2182162.87%0.50%3Matteo A.(1676)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 22 2= =2 2182041.41%0.47%4ypercube(1831)2 00 00 2-2 22 22 0= >= =2 >1622855.38%2.04%5Marius Halsor(1630)0 20 20 20 0-0 02 02 02 >2 216176006Hjallti(1666)0 02 02 20 02 2-2 =2 =< >> 0142122.54%0.54%7FatPhil(1755)0 20 22 00 20 20 =-> 2= <> 2141923.63%0.58%8CleverHunk(1567)2 2< 00 0= <0 20 =< 0-= <> =6104009Roy78(1714)2 2> >= == =0 <> <= >= >-2 <68031.57%1.15%10Bernhard Herwig(1684)2 00 00 00 <0 0< 2< 0< =0 >-46400

Perhaps it is sort of "family automatism". Each time when RoRoRos father

is losing, RoRoRo claims "upset" ?!

I think it has more to do with the fact that at the time this game was finished, I had more than 100 rating points less than Phil...

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Roy78 2 - 0 CleverHunk
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 66/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 22 00 00 00 218264002muggel_b(1668)2 0-0 02 22 00 22 0< <> 22 2182163.62%0.52%3Matteo A.(1660)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 2= =2 22 2182040.88%0.36%4ypercube(1806)2 00 00 2-2 22 22 0= => >2 >1622858.12%2.27%5Marius Halsor(1655)0 20 20 20 0-0 02 02 =2 02 216180006Hjallti(1728)0 02 02 20 02 2-2 =< >2 >> 0142124.88%0.86%7FatPhil(1755)0 20 22 00 20 20 =-= <> 2> 2141923.62%0.57%8Roy78(1670)2 2> >= == =0 => <= >-2 =2 <89226.06%1.14%9CleverHunk(1567)2 2< 00 0< <0 20 << 00 =-> =61040010Bernhard Herwig(1684)2 00 00 00 <0 0< 2< 00 >< =-46400

Tournament: ut.einstein.101.2.1

Newly completed matches:

• Roy78 2 - 0 Matteo A.
  

Num Players: 10

Games completed: 67/90

NPlayerRating12345678910ScoreSonp(win)p(draw)1Ingo Althofer(1603)-0 22 20 22 02 22 00 00 00 218264002muggel_b(1668)2 0-0 02 22 00 22 0< <> 22 2182163.54%0.45%3Matteo A.(1660)0 02 2-2 02 00 00 2= 02 22 218204004ypercube(1806)2 00 00 2-2 22 22 0= => >2 >1622850.56%1.65%5Marius Halsor(1655)0 20 20 20 0-0 02 02 =2 02 216184006Hjallti(1709)0 02 02 20 02 2-2 =< >2 >> 0142123.18%0.51%7FatPhil(1755)0 20 22 00 20 20 =-= <> 2> 2141923.51%0.48%8Roy78(1682)2 2> >= 2= =0 => <= >-2 =2 <1012837.14%1.10%9CleverHunk(1567)2 2< 00 0< <0 20 << 00 =-> =61040010Bernhard Herwig(1684)2 00 00 00 <0 0< 2< 00 >< =-46400