Just a question

Although I like to have Rororo around, the fact that the Rororo and hanfried will probably decide this and future championships between them, might be a sign to give the championship back to humans.

I just want to (re)open the discussion. Also for MC's I was wondering the same.

I do not believe the code for either bot has changed in many years, and the human's record is very good against the bots in that time. So there's no reason to suspect that the bots will dominate in the future.

Certainly being flooded by bots is a bad thing - in that case we should fight between ourselves to work out who has the right to challenge the humans - but EinStein's not at that state.

When I lose my job later this year I might get back to coding more games for RoRoRo, and then pay for him to be able to organise his own UTs. However, Nokia have given me no indication when they'll want to get rid of me yet.

Regarding MC's, I've changed his behaviour so that he won't sign up to them if there are any humans already signed up, and reduced the number of games/leagues that he may have active at any one time, so that he'll be less ubiquitous in them.

He really does miss the old ratings tournaments...

I also miss old rating tournament (for any game type). They were (IMHO) the best way to improve one's playing level.

Is the last sentence in your first message not supposed to start with "If..." rather than "When..."

Do we play more stupid against Rororo than before?

About the RT's I totally agree. I liked that you were sure to have 3 games, at own level for a short time and still it was a tournament

Me too,

@Hjallti - when I lose my job, not if.

I might offer Nokia the possibility of staying on to do 'work' on the new Windows Phone platform (spit!) on condition that 'work' consists solely of sabotage (and maybe a bit of slacking if the sabotage gets too strenuous). I am quite sure that the damagement who stay on will be more than happy to see the back of me, as the above is non-negotiable.

Are the bots running on better machines?

Hi,

I can not see evidence that RoRoRo and I are dominating the championships. In the first 10 championships we played 13 times (hanfried 8, RoRoRo 5) and we won only a single championship. 1 out of 13 is below the average!

(Ironic mode on)

If you ask me, I think that german speaking human (from Germany and Austria) are dominating the championships, winning 7 out of 10.

(Ironic mode off)

I will stopp playing in the championships, if anyone in the first league ask me to do so.

Btw: My code never changed during the years. My home-computer changed 3 or 4 years ago.

hi, i agree with Hanfried_c and Phil.

I can´t see a domination of bots. They play well and i like that. But for me it´s like the same, to play against a here playing bot (Hanfried_c, Fraggle_c, Hubbie_c and Rororo the bot) or kitaktus or luiser for example. They all made less mistakes and you need the dices to beat them.

That´s the game EWN: Taktical and luck.

Note: I didn´t see realy many mistakes in the games between my opponents and me in the championships. May be it´s possible to analysis a game from first to last move, that we grow in taktic.

And there was an example where RoRoRo disagreed with hanfried_c over a move recently, so it is guaranteed that one of them is suboptimal.

I agree with jonny.

Although the BOTS are dominating the game in a large number of games against a single opponent or averaged against many opponents in many games. However, the influence of the dice as well as the unbalanced (random) starting positions are so high that the winner of a chamionship (with a large number of good players) must always have more luck than the others.

This fact is not going to change as long as a normal or a good player can still win a 3 points match against a bot what still happens sometimes.

There are a few people who still have a 50 percent (approx. or higher) winnig quote against the bots.

(Some exemplary stats: Ray Garrison & (proud) YHW, each won 4 of 6 games against hanfried; even the "Looser" (congrats!) won 2 of 2 matches against hanfried;

also CARROL won 3 of 5 and wurscht won 2 of 3 against RoRo ; or in a large number of games: luiser 48.3% in 172 games against Roro;

several players won their one and only match against Roro like hartmut, Mojmir Hanes, etc)

The BOTS are indeed the best players, but as long as an individual win is still relatively random should there be no need to exclude them from the championship. In my opinion, it's more excting with them.

Best

One day LUISER comes back when the theory of everyting is completed ;)

Additional question to Hjallti, I've just checked that you have a winning quote of 39% (36 games) against RORO. That's pretty good ! What more do you want? ;)

You never played against hanfried but I would say that your own chance in an individual championship would be very good against the bots and the chances of others are even better.

Look at this game.

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1307427

You can see, that everybody can win or lose against everybody. You can have the better position and it helps nothing... In the 1. 2. and 5. game the luck come high.

And i think, that everyone of us knows those games. Sometimes we win thoses games and sometimes we lose, against human and bots. Thats the game... :---)))