question about etiquette

I've had a few players add the comment "thanks" (or similar) upon playing a move which they evidently think should make it clear that they have won.

I'm interested to hear how others feel about this. I think it's rude. To me, it comes across as "you can resign now, thank you." If you want to thank someone for a game, you can say that at the start or send a message after the game is over.

And if you are impatient waiting for someone else to resign, I understand--but it's not that hard to play a few more turns. I resign as soon as I see I have lost, but no sooner. If it takes me longer to see it than it does you, so be it.

I'm posting this in the Hex forum because that's the only game I play here (well, I play the occasional round of Empathy but that doesn't involve resigning).

I sort of agree, although I don't care that much. Mostly when someone says this to me I also see that I have lost. If I don't see it, I play on. If I don't want to think much about, it I also play on. (Yes, fairly often it is much easier fo find the best move (or one of the best) then finding out if you have lost/won already!)

I do think it is rude to do this against weaker players. What is a clearly decided position since 5 moves for one player might still be a complicated and even exciting position to someone with 300 rating points less. The weaker player can learn a lot by playing this out and has every right to do so.

The only way of not resigning that I would find annoying (fortunately it has only happened to me once I think) is when someone obviously plays on only because he hopes you'll time out.

I agree with you. It is rude and annoying, about the only thing you can do is ignore it.

totally agree, its rude an disturbing.

But sometimes is okay, when u have a "closer relation" with the other player.

(closer relation in internet terms....in littlegolem terms)

But yes, there some bullys outside.

I think it's OK to do this when it's obvious. I definitely do it myself occasionally. It is not my intention to be rude or annoying, certainly. Maybe I exercise the discretion kpato insightfully mentions?

However, the question of when it is obvious is one that we can never get a satisfactory answer to, considering the wide range of skills of players here. So it's best to put yourself into the shoes of your opponent. Noisily patting yourself on the back with a clever victory your 400-point-lower-rated opponent won't see for ages is a dick move.

If it were obvious to my opponent, I presume he would have resigned. If the game drags out, I may ask if the opponent sees how the rest will play out, but I think it would be rude to presumptively imply that the game is over. It's over when both players have gotten all they can from it.

I think it is presumptuous. I just had a hex opponent do this do me, in fact, it is my move after the comment. A comment like this makes me work harder to find a win, if there is one! I had an opponent who did this to me a couple of times in breakthrough, and he was wrong and it felt good to punish him. I replied to him, "no, thank you!"

Dvd - historically many people don't resign even when it's obvious what the outcome will be, so I disagree with your presumption. In particular in games which end with a score rather than a binary win/loss, as there's a ghoulish desire to see how much of a thrashing it will be.

Which reminds me of the last time I did say pre-emptively say "thanks" to an opponent. It was in a game of dvonn where the only pieces left were mine. Should I have asked my opponent if he saw how the game would play out instead? I personally don't think so, as I would consider that obnoxiously patronising. I still think "thanks" is the best way forward in that situation.

FatPhil, a Dvonn game where one player can only Pass and a Hex game (where both players move) are two different things. Noone will argue against your case.

(and yes, I agree, it's rude. It has happened to me, too, in hex games here)

Hi all,

I encountered this "thanks" in Hex only once and I think that it is just impolite, but it is not necessarily rude. I never wrote it to any of my opponents, but instead played out every game until the very last piece, if necessary. This is unpleasant, but it is a part of the game. On the other hand I often learned from my stronger opponents by "forcing" them to play out their ladder escapes and other threats.

Since TomAce played no other games tham Hex13 and Hex19 on LittleGolem until now this answers his question from my point of view.

In StreetSoccer I see things differently. A soccer match is always played out until the end, no matter what the score is. Because of this heritage I believe that StreetSoccer matches should be played out, too. In tournaments, the total score may play a role in breaking ties. I therefore consider a "thanks" during a (obviously won/lost) StreetSoccer match as very rude behaviour. This does not mean that I condemn "resigning" at all in this case, but pointing someones opponent to this is just inappropriate.

I don't think I've ever used the "Thanks" after thinking I've won. And I KNOW I've gotten it against me, and still won the game.

However, I do something which probably is similar some times: When a game I have considered interresting is absolutely decided (I know the winning lines), I sometimes start discussing the game with my opponent (usually only if I know my opponent). This is because it is easier to discuss the game with in-game messages, than with messages after the game is finished. I find such discussions interresting, and hope I haven't offended any (I think the last time I did this was in our Hex13 game, Ray).

Wow, lots of responses. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts on this. It's helpful to hear how other people see it, whatever their view is.

I had come to the same conclusion as Aaron Coombs, that there isn't much to do but ignore it. (Or get so good that you just never lose.)

Maybe they're just thanking you for being a wonderful human being :-)

I happen to say "thank you" before the end of many of my games in Hex and Breakthrough (whether I won or lost). Like Marisu, I think that in-game messages are much more practical.

I could wait until the very last move, but I usually thank my opponents on the penultimate move so that they can answer with in-game message. Also, I don't think I would thank my opponent in a position where they might have overlooked my winning line, I would wait until I think it's very obvious to somebody with their rating. Now I hope none of my thanked opponent felt offended...

On the other hand, I have often been thanked almost in the middle of the game (from my point of view) by a much stronger player. I wasn't offended but I can understand how it might happen. It was interesting to see how many more moves I needed before reaching the same conclusion.

I always say "good game" on the assumption that if the outcome of the game is obvious to me, it's obvious to anybody :)

I agree with Marius. In my opinion, saying "Thanks for the game" at an appropriate point is actually *good* etiquette! Only to be used in these circumstances:

\* you are absolutely sure you have won and this would be obvious to a strong player

\* the opponent is strong and the game has been a good contest

\* the opponent is playing on in a clearly hopeless position (this frequently happens in Amazons, when one player is clearly behind, there are no more contested areas, but the game, if played to its' natural end, might take 20 moves or more; the other guy might just be playing on in the hope you will time out)

I say its good etiquette because against a good player, once they see the game is over, they may well resign and you would lose the opportunity of thanking them for a good game or discussing it with in-game messages! I have played many games where my giving the "end of the game" conversation initiates a pleasant conversation as each player gives their thoughts about what went right or wrong in the game. The back-and-forth conversation is given as each move is played.

Naturally, if I am resigning, I write a nice congratulatory message. If I want to discuss the game, I might say, "Well played, I don't see any defence now. What did you think of my 23.Qxh4? I was struggling between that and 23.Bf3. I will resign next move."

This should *never* be done to be rude or condescending. If you think it is rude, just ignore it (but the other guy might then think that it is you who is being rude...and he might be right!).

If you're asking for someone ti resign, then ask for someone to resign. Pretending to thank them when thanking is not actually your agenda is passive-agressive and dishonest.

"Thanks" could be bad.

"Thanks for the game" Its very good.

bravo Dvd.

Does "Thanks for the game" translate into "Please resign now" in American English?

Dvd, try re-reading the original comment. Agree with kpato that the simple "Thanks" is a rubbish comment.

I started this thread after a particular instance,

where red said "thx" when playing move 15 in game 1371004:

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1371004&nmove=15

I considered saying "you're welcome" around move 48, but I didn't.

Is talking about good form good form?

(Captain Hook's dilemma if I recall correctly :)

I'm not sure, but talking about bad form is certainly bad form.

Is there a way to send chat messages in a game independent of doing a turn? AFAIK, no. (If I'm wrong, please tell me how to do it.) I suppose that's why people thank before the game is over instead of afterwards. E.g. at Superdupergames, both players typically send some kind of "thanks, interesting game" type message after the game is over. I don't know a way to do that here.

No, but you can send a message that's not programmaticly tied tot he game.