Let's annotate some games!

Public forum discussion.

#1 · shalev

6 Dec 2013

I think it might be a good idea to start annotating some games. It's easy to do, and I bet a lot of players have games they thought a lot about that they could summarize.

You can either annotate a game yourself, or if you're not comfortable with that, you can post a game here and other players will probably annotate it for you (I volunteer to do a few if there is extra demand for annotations).

I'm planning to annotate a recent game I played against Art Duval:
http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1573533
Give me a day or two to get my thoughts together though.

#2 · shalev

7 Dec 2013

Alright, here's an annotation of my game against Art Duval. I'm playing first (black), and he's second (white). This ended up being longer than I planned. Also, I guess I had more to say about my own moves than about Art Duval's moves. This is probably because I know exactly why I played my moves, while I can only guess about Art Duval's.

1. b2.
I've been playing this opening a lot recently, because I think it's underrated. Most top players don't swap this move, but it seems to me like it's difficult to beat. If I was forced to guess, I might guess that it is losing in theory, but in practice I would swap this move even against top players.

2. e6.
This is a standard response to b2. For example, Maciej seems to play this. The idea of this move is that it seems to "perfectly fit" into the remaining space on the left side of the board, forming an efficient pattern. When I say "perfectly fit", I'm visualizing this pattern:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6m13d5l13c4k13b3j13d8i13c10h13b12

3. c6.
This move is my invention in response to e6. The idea is that for the purposes of corner patterns, the b2 stone effectively moves the top row two rows down. It "feels" like this:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6m13c2l13d2k13a2j13e2m12f2m11g2l12
so the idea of c6 is to try to continue this usual corner pattern:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,e4e4c4

I'm not sure what the correct response to c6 is. It looks like this move has been played only twice before I started playing it (once by Jonathan and once by Jos Dekker), so there's no standard response. Note that simply continuing the corner pattern gives
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6c4d4c7
which I think is strong for the player with the b2 stone (I wonder if other experienced players agree).

4. f7.
I'm not sure I understand this move. I guess it's trying to get close to the right side of the board while maintaining connection to the left. The problem is that this bridge is fragile, and I'm likely to get a free stone at either f6 or e7 later in the game, depending on how things develop.

5. j6.
I've recently started liking moves on the "third diagonal", like l4, k5, and j6. The point of such moves is that the only way to block them from connecting to the top is to start a ladder:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6j5i6i5h6h5
Since c6 is a great ladder escape, I feel comfortable with ladders on the top. I played j6 and not k5 to try to exploit the weak bridge. The plan is to continue the ladder by playing something like
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6j5i6i5h6h5f6g6k5k4l4l3d8
(here d8 is "almost" connected to the top, and is itself on the third diagonal for the bottom.)

6. i10.
The point is to try to block j6 from connecting to the bottom while playing a standard corner pattern, which is efficient.

7. k10.
Standard corner pattern.

8. k12.
Standard corner pattern.

9. j12.
I play j12 and not j10 because I want an escape for my ladders at the bottom, and I'm willing to let my opponent have an escape for ladders on the right. The j6 piece will make such an escape slightly less useful for my opponent than it otherwise would be. Also, j12 is generally better than j10 in the absence of other information.

10. k9.
Standard corner pattern.

11. g9.
This moves is connected to the bottom, and threatens to connect to the top via j6. It also provides an escape for ladders coming from the left. Finally, it forms a relatively efficient pattern with the corner pattern. I also did some searching of reasonable paths to see that I win in most cases.

12. h8.
This is a reasonable way to block g9 from connecting to j6.

13. h9.
This once again threatens to connect to j6, while making the escape on the bottom rock solid. At the time I remember calculating that I might need the extra strength at the bottom (for example, to escape 5th-row ladders).

14. h6.
This move threatens to disconnect j6 from the top (by playing j5) and also threatens to disconnect j6 from h9 (by playing i7). Of course, these two threats overlap. But if I play in the overlap (i6), we get something like
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6i10k10k12j12k9g9h8h9h6i6i8g7f8g8h5h7j4f6g6d8d9b10
This is complicated, and needs to be calculated carefully. I certainly don't have an easy win if I play i6.

15. d7.
I decided my chances are better if I play d7. The position becomes easier to examine - for example, d8 is one of the only things that can be played at the bottom of the board.

16. d8.

17. e7.
Here I finally exploit the "weak bridge" from the beginning of the game. White has two choices for how to play the bottom of the board. The first is:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6i10k10k12j12k9g9h8h9h6d7d8e7f8e8e9c10d9b9c7b6a8c8d6f6
(for this path, I actually use the fact that I have an escape for 5th-row ladders at the bottom - can you see why?)
The second option is:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6i10k10k12j12k9g9h8h9h6d7d8e7e8g7g6i6
(there are other variants of this, but they also lose).

18. c4.
White chose to play at the top of the board first. I'm forced to reconnect to the top.

19. d4.
I reconnect to the top. I need to be careful that this:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6i10k10k12j12k9g9h8h9h6d7d8e7c4d4f8e8e9c10d9b9c7c8d6f6
still works, which it does.

20. f10.
This is sort of a last attempt by white to gain strength on the left. It's sort of a trap: if I respond with g11, we get
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6i10k10k12j12k9g9h8h9h6d7d8e7c4d4f10g11e8g7g8f8f9e9d11
(I don't think this quite works for white, but maybe something similar does).

21. f9.
I don't need to worry about what happens if I play g11, because I can play f9 and stay connected to the bottom. The game is basically over at this point.

22. d11.
23. e10.
24. e11.
25. d10.
26. Resign.

#3 · Ignatius J Reilly

7 Dec 2013

Thanks, shalev.

#4 · Greck

7 Dec 2013

I have uploaded a graphical version (Go fashioned) of this annotated game:

mural.uv.es/gremor/shalev-duval.pdf

Feel free to criticize :-)

By the way, I felt a great disturbance in the Force (a post about a Hex Book!!!) and I was compelled to come back to LG ;o)

#5 · Art Duval

7 Dec 2013

Thanks, shalev for starting this, and sharing your thinking. I will try to add my thoughts before the end of the weekend. I remember some of what I was thinking while playing, and if I think about it a little more, I'll probably re-create much of the rest.

#6 · Ignatius J Reilly

7 Dec 2013

Thanks for the PDF, Gregorio. It makes things much easier to read.

#7 · shalev

7 Dec 2013

Gregorlo, the pdf looks amazing! Thanks!

I just realized that I need to post a correction to "the plan" in 5. j6. I originally said the plan is this:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6j5i6i5h6h5f6g6k5k4l4l3d8
and I said d8 is almost connected to the top. I was thinking of this line:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6j5i6i5h6h5f6g6k5k4l4l3d8d5b5c5b6c4a4b4a5b3a3d7e7g4f5f3b8
but for some reason I thought black was okay here (he's not - c10 clearly wins for white). This means that black actually loses in the "plan" I gave.

A correct version of the plan would be something like this:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6j5i6i5h6h5k5k4l4l3g6g5f6f5d7
Hopefully there are no mistakes this time =)

#8 · Greck

8 Dec 2013

shalev, you are welcome! :)

I'll change "the plan" and upload a corrected version.

By the way, you can spell my name "Gregorio". I had issues some years ago when the politics about the name changed here in LG and I was unable to change to my name back ;) (ah, good old times!)

#9 · shalev

9 Dec 2013

Thanks Gregorio =)

I keep finding more mistakes... for example, the g9 piece already escapes 5th row ladders, I don't know why I said it doesn't. This means I don't know why I played 13. h9... right now I actually think h9 was not necessary. I could have probably just played 13. d7 immediately.

Maybe I saw something at the time that I'm missing now. I think I was just trying to simplify the position, to prevent a move like e11 or f11 from forcing me to reconnect g9 to the bottom while giving white strength on the left.

#10 · David J Bush

9 Dec 2013

Gregorio, I appreciate your effort to create a pdf file, but I wish to point out that Richard has provided a way to show any position from any game that was played here on LG. At the bottom of this page, There is a link to explain textile markup, and below that, another link that says "How include game board?"

So, pdf is great to download, but you can show an annotated game right here as well, with fewer layout options, but decent enough.

#11 · Ignatius J Reilly

9 Dec 2013

David, can you show positions from games that were not played on LG? For example, can you show variations on the main game under discussion that were not actually played? I thought the built-in game display only showed positions from actual LG games.

#12 · Ignatius J Reilly

9 Dec 2013

But, nevertheless, it's good to remind people that they can include graphics of LG game positions in forum posts.

#13 · Greck

9 Dec 2013

Yeah, I remember when Richard implemented that five or six years ago (oh boy, time goes so fast!), but as Ignatius said, that system is unable to show variations; and that's the really important part of the story! :D

#14 · David J Bush

9 Dec 2013

For variations, you can register for free at Board Game Geek . Then take screenshots of variations from either trmph.com or from some other virtual board such as Jhex. Then upload the images to your personal gallery on BGG and show them here using textile.

#15 · Greck

10 Dec 2013

I strongly prefer a pdf ;)

#16 · lazyplayer

10 Dec 2013

Shalev, white could have tried this:

http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6i10k10k12j12k9g9f4

This is an approach used by David J Bush, ask him about this! :)

I've also some more ideas on how to improve white, but blck position looks very solid, so they're probably only complications... :)

#17 · lazyplayer

10 Dec 2013

Gregorio, the pdf is VERY nice. Thank you for sharing it.

What tool you used to generate it? Latex with some additonal package?

#18 · Greck

10 Dec 2013

I have toyed with LaTeX with some Hex packages on the net, but the result wasn't so satisfactory. So I used Tom's converter and inDesign for a quick&dirty pdf.

#19 · shalev

12 Dec 2013

Did anyone read my actual annotation? Any comments? Questions? Requests for more?

#20 · Art Duval

12 Dec 2013

@shalev: I did read it, though I didn't follow all the long sequences of alternative moves. I've been thinking about what I can say for my moves, but, it's finals week here, and I'm busy putting together final exams, answering questions from students (grading to come soon), so there hasn't been time to write it down. I can say for now: I pretty much agree with your assessment of the first four moves, and I wonder if I wasn't already in a hole by that point.

#21 · Maciej Celuch

12 Dec 2013

Shalev, I read your annotation and i think it's good. I saw the same mistakes you have noticed later (g9 was already connected to the bottom and your plan http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6f7j6j5i6i5h6h5k5k4l4l3g6g5f6f5d7).

In the siutation 1.b2 2.e6 3.c6 i would try this: http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6c5. Then black has two choices. He can play somewhere on the bottom or top-right or He can try to connect top by plaing
5.b6: http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6c5b6b5d5f4e3
5.b6: http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6c5b6b5e5f3g4f5f4

5.e5: http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6c5e5f3b7d4g4f5f4d6d5
or
5.d5: http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6c5d5f4b7f3e3

Now the game is open and anything can happen.

#22 · FatPhil

12 Dec 2013

Many many thanks for this excellent contribution to the LG community - this is why I love LG - and welcome back Gregor[il]o! This thread is going to take a *lot* of my attention this evening, I'm really hoping that I can learn something from it.

I'm going to ask a real newb-level question, I'm afraid, and, even worse, it's about one of the variations mentioned, rather than the game itself:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,b2e6c6c4d4c7
What was the point in c4 if you know it's going to be responded to with d4? I find it hard to believe that c4 will often be part of a winning connection, so isn't it a wasted move? Worse than that, d4 looks like it could quite possibly be part of a winning connection, so the net result of c4d4c7 seems less useful than just doing c7 on its own.

Also - I'm wondering if this could be be turned into an LGTV video on youtube? (I could try to contribute either the sound, the vid, or both - anything apart from the thinking! <:-| )

#23 · shalev

13 Dec 2013

FatPhil, the reason I was expecting c4 is that it looks like c2 in the usual corner template: http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,e4e4c4c2d2c5

The reason to play a move like c2 here is that the c4 piece is already connected to the top, AND it already escapes ladders from the top, so the d2 piece gives black relatively little. In other words, most paths that would connect through d2 would have connected anyway through c4 if the c2 and d2 piece weren't there. On the other hand, c2 does give white strength on the left - it escapes second row ladders, so it will be part of a winning connection whenever white gets a second row ladder on the left.

For example, a move like b7:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,e4e4c4c2d2c5b7
does not force white to reconnect c5 to the left, but without the c2 piece, it would.

#24 · shalev

13 Dec 2013

Maciej, thanks for your analysis! c5 is a very good move. I haven't considered it. I would probably pick one of the b6 variants you outlined. Very interesting!

#25 · FatPhil

13 Dec 2013

Thank you for that explanation, it's quite simple in reality, but quite deep - a newb would never think of doing that on his own. I guess these are just patterns you have to remember if you want to improve at the game. (Which is a shame for me, as I have an utterly abyssmal memory.)

#26 · FatPhil

13 Dec 2013

#27 · FatPhil

13 Dec 2013

#28 · FatPhil

14 Dec 2013

There will be some tweaks (I think I've got the colours wrong!), but I'll try and keep the interface stable. The script may move too, so don't rely on it always being at:
http://87.119.183.129/perl/hexplot.pl

The above images used the following queries, it should be obvious what the parameters mean:
?size=11&moves=b2e6c6c5e5f3b7d4g4f5f4d6d5&diam=30&diamond=1
?size=12&moves=b2e6c6c5e5f3b7d4g4f5f4d6d5&diam=25
?size=13&moves=b2e6c6c5e5f3b7d4g4f5f4d6d5&diam=35&num=1

size defaults to 13
diamond tips the board into a symmetrical diamond (defaults off)
num numbers the pieces (defaults off)
diam number of pixels wide the hexes are (defaults to 50)

These names were all arbitrary, I just threw the script together quickly yesterday, and I'm not attached to any particular part of the interface.
E.g. I think there should be a way of specifying (orient for blue, orient for read, and orient symmetrically, rather than using the 'diamond' parameter.

Shout out feature requests - changing things takes only a matter of minutes.
e.g. I just tweaked it so it would do this (and everyone will recieve a different image!)
!http://87.119.183.129/perl/hexplot.pl?size=13&diam=35&moves=b2e6c6c5e5f3b7d4g4f5f4d6d5&num&drunk!

One feature request that will be rejected immediately is changing the quality of the graphics - I'm tied to the GD library, and that means jaggies (remove the diam parameter or set over 50). Sorry.

If you mess things up, my script just happily aborts and sends you nothing :-P

#29 · dushoff

14 Dec 2013

It would be good to be able have numbered and unnumbered stones, so that you could discuss a position by focusing on the moves you care about (and have them stand out from the background moves). One possible way to do this would be a numMoves parameter that would work like the moves parameter.

#30 · na_wspak

14 Dec 2013

Drunk??

#31 · FatPhil

14 Dec 2013

As in not knowing which way's up. It makes perfect sense!!!!!

#32 · FatPhil

14 Dec 2013

#33 · na_wspak

14 Dec 2013

I shall do this like 8 is a 1 and 13 is a 6. If you show us some pattern, we don't concern of it's history (OK, that's true with at most 40% of puzzles IMO. However i think numbering from 1 is more readable)
Si u'd propose sth like:
rc="http://87.119.183.129/perl/hexplot.pl?size=13&diam=35&moves=b2e6c6c5e5f3b7d4g4f5f4d6d5&num=d4g4f5f4d6d5

#34 · na_wspak

14 Dec 2013

#35 · FatPhil

15 Dec 2013

If you put exclamation marks "!" on both sides of the URL it will be turned into an inline image.

And, as for relative numbering, how about:
!http://87.119.183.129/perl/hexplot.pl?size=13&diam=35&moves=b2e6c6c5e5f3b7d4g4f5f4d6d5&num=8-rel!

#36 · FatPhil

15 Dec 2013

#37 · Johannes Waldmann

15 Dec 2013

#38 · FatPhil

15 Dec 2013

Thanks Johannes! Oops.

#39 · z

16 Dec 2013

See my other post to learn how to quickly embed Hex images in the forum using a new feature of the Hex Board on trmph.com.

I hope this tool encourages more players to write and share game commentary.

#40 · Art Duval

25 Dec 2013

Here (finally) are some additional comments I can add to the very good comments shalev made about our recent game. I was not able to reproduce all my thinking, but I found a few places where I can add something to what shalev has already said.

4. f7
First, I agree with shalev's analysis of 3.c4 4.f7. Namely that 3.c4 felt very strong because the combination of 1.b2 3.c4 is an effective escape for any row up to the fifth row. So I was really unsure how to respond; I recall spending a lot of time thinking about how I could respond, and I did not have a lot of confidence in 4.f7. (I'm going to make a separate post, soon, I hope, about Maciej's suggestion of what I could have done instead.)

Here is why I thought that 4.f7 might be the least bad alternative. In its favor, as shalev notes, my two stones might turn out to be a good left side escape. The value *in general* of a two-stone escape is that: (a) even if it is relatively far from the edge (in this case fifth and sixth row), it can be effective for any row of approach [I recall this was first made clear to me by move 15.f6 in game #443363 ]; and (b) it can be a strong enough connection to the side that any one stone intrusion can be ignored, which would make it avoid the problem of intrusions by the opponent serving as "free stones" (as shalev called them). On the other hand, as shalev has noted, this particular two-stone connection is not actually strong enough to satisfy either (a) or (b).

I recall thinking that I would definitely pick *some* two-stone connection, for the reasons described above. (I think I considered ways to interfere with the two red stones, but could not think of anything that do more good than harm. For instance, 4.c4 might lead to 5.e6.) Other leading candidates were e7 and d8. But I've learned (especially from several losses to Daniel Sepczuk) that it is often helpful to put a configuration of stones that *almost* achieve some objective, with the hope that a stone that will be later added to connect to the configuration will complete the objective. So, with that in mind, I picked the two-stone combination that did the most to reaching towards the right side, while *almost* being a strong connection to the left.

I think I also thought of c8, which would be very solid connection, and reasonable escape, to the left. But it wouldn't reach to the right enough, vulnerable to say g7.

6. i10
In addition to what shalev said, which I agree with completely, there's one more thing in favor of this move. I've often found it to be helpful to purposely put many of my early stones on hexes that are "equivalent" in the following way, where there are 3 equivalence classes. Imagine coloring all the hexes of the board, using just 3 colors, so that any 3 hexes that meet all have different colors. (Using graph coloring language, properly color the adjacency graph of the hex board, using 3 colors, so that [as usual] adjacent vertices always have different colors.) It's not hard to see that there is a unique way to do this (up to renaming the colors). Call two hexes equivalent if they have the same color.

The significance of this equivalence comes from observing what are the nearest hexes that are the same color as a given hex; they are the ones that are a simple bridge move away from the given hex. This means there is a certain efficiency in connecting two hexes that are the same color. Not that you're necessarily going to connect any two particular hexes, but if enough of your pieces are all on the same "color", at some point you may find it easier than you thought to connect two of your stones. [Does anyone remember one of the Harry Potter books, where there's a potion that doesn't do anything in particular, but just makes you "lucky"? That's what I think of. All else being equal, stones on the same color makes you lucky.]

18. c4
This is also a bit of a help for an escape on the left. It would have worked better if I could work in a piece at c7, but that relies on e6 being connected to the right, which it wasn't.

Figure 11
I don't recall if I had a *specific* plan/trap in mind, but I think the general idea of what shalev sketched out is the sort of thing I was thinking of. Clearly I knew I was in trouble by this point (actually long before this).

#41 · shalev

26 Dec 2013

Art Duval, thanks for your comments!

I like your explanation regarding playing stones of the same colour. I noticed that as well, although instead of colouring, I was thinking about whether the stones can be "connected by bridges" (this is equivalent, of course). One slight difference in my intuition is that I think this colour matching is mostly important when playing on the opponent's side of the board. In my head, if you want to chop up the opponent's side into awkward pieces, playing stones on the same "colour" is often the efficient way to do it.

Also, notice that i10 and j11 have the same colour, so this concept doesn't help you select between them. In general, I think these two stones are so efficient that they are a reason to prefer the 5th row stone e9 to its 4th or 6th row equivalents if you want to play on the main diagonal in the opening (because e9 matches the colour of i10 and j11 while d10 and f8 don't). Of course, this is only true in the absence of any other information. For the same reason, I've started playing moves like f10 a lot (as blue/white), because it's on this same "good colour" while also being on the "third diagonal". My 5.j6 move in the game is exactly this move.

My observations in the above paragraph apply only to 13x13, so I'd be interested in investigating what playing on (say) 14x14 is like. I'm also interested in whether other top players think I'm talking nonsense :P

#42 · Arek Kulczycki

27 Dec 2013

Thanks for the interesting comments guys.

I think that distances measured by bridges are not necessarily "correct". On many occasions other patterns suit much better than bridges, for example such 'horse' pattern:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,f7a1i6
Even locally the choice between horse and bridge is not obvious, therefore globally the fact of stones being 'the same colour' may have no importance at all.

@ Shalev's j6/f10, well, I would not play it in opening phase. From my experience long and short diagonal moves are strictly stronger than all the others. I see j6 is strong to stop i5, but you probably pay a little more than you gain. Beyond the opening phase there are no general rules, so no move should be neglected.

#43 · shalev

27 Dec 2013

Interesting, I think I disagree with Arek here. I wonder if we can find an example of a position in which we prefer different moves. How about this:

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1593401&nmove=8
(note that this game is not over yet, so you may want to avoid discussing it in detail).

Would you have played 8.g7 instead of 8.h4?

#44 · Arek Kulczycki

28 Dec 2013

I'm speaking without a thorough analysis, but:

I would probably play 8.e4
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,l12l12h9h11j11j10g11e4.

And against h4 maybe black e5
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,l12l12h9h11j11j10g11h4e5.
This last position seems still playable for black. 17.j4 was zaszczyk's worst moment, nonetheless I believe he played top-left badly too.

Congrats for the win :)

#45 · shalev

28 Dec 2013

If you play 8.e4, aren't you scared of 9.h6?
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,l12l12h9h11j11j10g11e4h6

#46 · Arek Kulczycki

29 Dec 2013

I doubt 9.h9 can reach top. Not sure, but this seems enough for white:
http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,l12l12h9h11j11j10g11e4h6h4j5k3i4h5i6g7

http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,l12l12h9h11j11j10g11e4h6h4j5k3i4h5i6g7h8j2i3i2h3h2g3g2f3f2e3e2c3d3b5c4b4c5b6d10

There are complications, black can make some mess, but black had serious chances either way, after 8 moves.

#47 · Arek Kulczycki

29 Dec 2013

#48 · shalev

30 Dec 2013

Fair enough. I guess it's hard to judge whether 8.e4 or 8.h4 gives an easier win.

#49 · Carroll

30 Dec 2013

1)
2)
3)

#50 · Arek Kulczycki

27 Jan 2014

As I have absolutely no idea how to play on 19x19 correctly I will soon try to annotate one game for practice and to see your comments.
Also I wanna show you the game, cuz it is truely the wildest one I've ever played ;)
Take a look at the position after 28 moves!

!http://littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1593425&nmove=28!