Is the 12* move protocol playable in Hex game?

Public forum discussion.

#1 · Kalabas

22 Jun 2024

I've always disliked the pie rule in games. Therefore, I am interested in other ways of equalizing the game. One of these methods is the 12* move protocol, which proved itself perfectly in the connect6 game. A very similar one is used in the game Blooms (of Nick Bentley). Has anyone ever tried Hex with protocol 12*? How playable is it?

#2 · David J Bush

23 Jun 2024

I don't know; it probably would be an interesting game. But it would not be Hex.

#3 · Kalabas

23 Jun 2024

Why won't it be hex? The goal will remain the same.

#4 · add3993

23 Jun 2024

All the templates and pattern memory go out the window. Many connected shapes are no longer connected. So tactically speaking at least it is almost a completely new game, much as Chess or Go would be with 2-move turns. All of these games would likely remain very interesting, but they will have no human experts or player community. And these are traditionally games where we like and value having expert human players to learn from and compete with.

Of course some people like exploring new ground, and that's fine, but it can be lonely without other motivated players. Today we have the AlphaZero template that can be expected to give superhuman bots for such games (given long-enough training) and one can play with and learn from the bots. The technical skillset needed to do so at present is still a little larger than it should be, though.

#5 · Tasmanian Devil

2 Jul 2024

In Y, a game closely related to Hex, this variant is called Master Y if I remember correctly (I couldn't access the Hex wiki right now). It is more difficult to analyse because of the high number of possible moves and the lack of large connection templates, but definitely interesting.

#6 · Kalabas

2 Jul 2024

Interesting. But if there is a Master-Y and there is no Master-Hex, then it looks like this hex-option has some major drawbacks.

#7 · HappyHippo

3 Jul 2024

I've got to agree with add3993 and David. It would work and probably be a competitive game, but I have no need for yet another abstract game. There are no shortages of new abstract games. Head over to boardgamegeek's abstract games forum and you'll see new games posted what seems like every day.

But to me the interesting part of an abstract game is learning the theory. In Hex you start by learning connected shapes and ladders. Then you learn about territory and min-maxing. Then you learn about the opening. At each step you grow and get better. There's an immense satisfaction that comes from learning a new technique and deploying it in your games. All that knowledge comes from the community of players and the games they've played. There's a reason we have more Chess players and Go players than generic "abstract strategy" players: these people want to climb the ladder of knowledge of their chosen game. That's what appeals to them.

Every newly invented game starts from zero. While I'm sure some people enjoy inventing games as an activity in it's own right, I'd rather play a game with a community of players and an established theory than a game without. Getting any abstract game "off the ground" is an enormous task, and we should cherish the ones that have pulled it off.